Paranormal Peeps
Paranormal Peeps
When a “Noisy Ghost” Becomes a Siege: Inside the Enfield Haunting, Skepticism, and 14 Months of Evidence
A modest council house on Green Street shouldn’t turn into a stage for flying toys, hot marbles, and a chair that slides on command—but that’s where our night begins. We pull apart the Enfield Haunting with a clear lens: not just what was claimed, but who saw what, when, and how the story held together across months of pressure, fatigue, and scrutiny. From neighbors who fled next door, to a police constable who watched a chair move, to a photographer who took a Lego to the eyebrow, the details pile up—and so do the questions.
We walk through the turning points: the Society for Psychical Research arriving with Maurice Grosse and later Guy Playfair; strange interference that kills video yet allows photos; knocks that track movement; marbles that land hot and refuse to bounce; a child at the center of the storm. Then the voice arrives—deep, gravelly, and eerily specific—identifying itself as “Bill,” later matching a former occupant’s death. Doctors argue false vocal folds; tests with taped lips and water complicate the easy answers. Some moments can be staged; the girls admit the pressure to perform. But other moments—curtains twisting like hands, stones manifesting in the garden, the medium’s cleanse coinciding with a slow fade—refuse to be filed away as tricks.
Rather than force a verdict, we explore three frames: a human spirit with unusual ability, a layered haunting where something non-human rides the chaos, and a psychosocial amplifier centered around a bright, stressed child on the edge of puberty. The label “poltergeist” starts to feel less like a species and more like a weather pattern: conditions where a house becomes conductive, technology misbehaves, and people of all stripes witness things they can’t quickly explain.
If you enjoy careful, grounded storytelling about the paranormal—sourced, skeptical, and still open to wonder—this one’s for you. Hit follow, share with a friend, and tell us: which single detail would make you a believer?
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Between the realm of the dead and the journeys of the living, join Josh, Jamie, and Elisa as they delve into the vast world of the paranormal and breathe life back into the history of the departed.
SPEAKER_05:Hey everybody, welcome back to the Paranormal Peeps Podcast. I'm Josh.
SPEAKER_00:I'm Jamie. And I'm Elisa.
SPEAKER_05:And what are we gonna be covering tonight, Elisa?
SPEAKER_00:We are going to be talking about the infilled hauntingslash um poltergeist. In my opinion, I mean everybody has different opinions about ghost hunting and things, but in my opinion, I don't really believe in poltergeist. Why is that? Because I feel like people try to separate them into categories of of different types of or different ghosts or different spirits. Yeah. I think they're all spirits no matter what. And I don't think I think that some are just more advanced than others. I feel like some have more abilities than others. More experience. Yeah, maybe they've been dead a heck of a lot longer. I don't know. But I just feel like some, you know, have the abilities to move things and whatever and manipulate objects or electricity or whatever, what have you. Or just be a regular ghost. Right.
SPEAKER_05:Maybe it's just like ghosts, the TV show where they only got one guy that can actually push and move things.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Press the buttons on the keyboard.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:The one that smells like crap whenever you walk past him and smells like diarrhea. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I kind of feel that it is, is just they just have different abilities, just like people do. People have different talents, different abilities. So why wouldn't that be any different on the other side?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I don't think it's a specific type.
SPEAKER_04:So is it the is it just the name poltergeist? Because it's a German word meaning noisy ghost, or is it the definition that they put behind the word?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think it's the way that people have been perceiving. Okay. I think people are starting to, or have been, changing what the meaning actually is. Instead of it just being a noisy ghost, they've changed it into it's one type of ghost, and that's what that ghost only does. Right. So they kind of warped it into its own thing. Yeah, and I don't I don't feel that's it. Okay. I just feel like it's probably somebody who has a stronger ability to be able to do those things and is able to manipulate objects and what have you.
SPEAKER_05:I would imagine too that the movie poltergeist didn't help at all with this part of definition.
SPEAKER_00:None of those movies help with any of this. I mean, they're fun and entertaining to watch. Sure. As far as like reality goes, it's not.
SPEAKER_05:Unless you're five and your dad lets you watch it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's like a terrible decision.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like terrible. Younger than the girl that was in the movie. So yeah, we're gonna be talking about the Enfilled Haunting. It's a very popular um haunting of a place in the UK.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:And it's like the most documented haunting in the UK that they have so far. Really? So there was so much information about it. And I've known the story for a long time, right? Once you really dive in, there's a lot. It is so well done with they have so many recordings because they did a ton of audios recordings in there, and the people practically lived there. So it's like us going to somebody's house that's having crazy experiences, and we literally are there day and night, and we live there for months getting all this info. Like, how freaking cool would that be?
SPEAKER_04:I ain't gonna lie. That would be so cool. I mean, if we ever if we ever get that opportunity to like, hey, we're having some issues, come on out, stay for a couple weeks, stay for a week. Yeah, even a week, right?
SPEAKER_00:Like, I mean, I'm in there.
SPEAKER_05:I think they did a show like that, like where they took some of the ghost hunters and and they put them in a place for like 30 days.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Oh, that'd be so cool.
SPEAKER_05:I think Shane Pittman was part of that group.
SPEAKER_00:I think you're right. I'd be all in 30 days. Way fun because at that point you're getting so many different types of information and ways to investigate. You have time. Yes. You're not rushed, you're not you wouldn't be missing anything because you'd be there the entire time. You're not regulated to like five hours. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I've done ghost hunts and stuff where I have well, we've all done them where we've stayed 12 hours, what have you. Sure.
SPEAKER_05:And that's a long night.
SPEAKER_00:It is, but imagine being there day and night. Day and night. Day and night. Day and night.
SPEAKER_05:Well, yeah, because then you get rest, right? Like the the worst part about doing a 12-hour or 18-hour investigation is like by the time you get done, you're tired and worn out, and you're like, that was rough.
SPEAKER_00:That's why I think we would like if you actually did something like that, you would flip your schedule. You'd be sleeping during the day and awake all night long. Heck yeah. I I almost guarantee it. Heck yeah. It'd be worth it. It'd be such a cool thing to do.
SPEAKER_05:We're getting a place for 30 days. Let's go.
SPEAKER_00:Who wants us? All right, so let's start. So the lady that owned the home, her name is Peggy Hodgson. She was born in 1934 in Edmonton, England, and at the age of 43, she found herself divorced and a single mother. It's not clear how long she had been divorced for, but in 1977, she lived on 284 Green Street with her four children, Margaret, she's 13, Janet 11, Johnny 10, and Billy 7. Peggy did her best to provide necessities for her two sons and two daughters. She was said to be quiet and reserved, but very independent and in good standing with the community. And I think with that, that has a good base for her because when you aren't known by your community, when you're not trustworthy, can you imagine coming up and telling people that your house is haunted and people being like, oh, sure. And like not wanting to hang around, not wanting to hear or not believing anything you're saying. Right. So I think that gives like I I listened and not listened, but I really read a lot of actual statements and watched actual statements, like interviews of neighbors and people around that said that she was very, very trustworthy, very, very independent, never wanted help from anybody, never asked for help from anybody. So this was like a huge deal. Right. So she lived just a few houses down from her brother, who worked at a local hospital. So that really helped a ton for her. Um, the brother and his wife. So Peggy's eldest daughter, Margaret, had the reputation for being bright, but was also fairly quiet. Janet, her 11-year-old daughter, on the other hand, was extroverted. Her personality was described as animated, and she was physically active and gymnastics was her forte. Johnny 10, he was the eldest of the two boys and wasn't often home. He attended a boarding school, which kept him away from the house, except for school holidays and on the weekends, which made him mostly absent during the infilt haunting. And I really didn't find much information about him through the entire process of the haunting. So very little for him. Yeah, they don't even mention him. I wonder why.
SPEAKER_05:Well, if he's not home, I guess it makes kind of sense.
SPEAKER_00:I suppose. But like weekends and stuff, I don't know. Maybe he would just stay there during the weekends for the most part. Yeah. During that time. I don't know. But Billy, the youngest, he was only seven. He suffered from a s a severe speech disability, and I think he was semi-handicapped to the point where you couldn't converse with him very well. Um, the Hodginsons were an ordinary family, and the kids were mostly um staying out of trouble. Peggy worked tirelessly to provide for her children, and the neighborhood was just like any other. The neighbors, Vic and Peggy Nottingham, lived in 282 Green Street. The families would occasionally socialize and remain supportive of the Hodgson family both during and after the infilled haunting. And they were their houses were connected. So they were like a bunch of duplexes, basically.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And their house is touched. Everything was normal until it began in the night of August 30th, 1977. Night had fallen over the 284 Green Street, a modest council house in Enfield. In one upstairs bedroom, 11-year-old Janet Hodgson complained that her and her brother's bed was trembling. Peggy thought that they were just up to no good and ignored the comment and made him go back to bed. But the next night was different. 9 30 p.m. Peggy had just put the children to bed. She heard a loud crash and booked it over to her daughter's room to tell them to knock it off and to go to bed, because those the two girls shared a room. And sometimes the boy would sleep in there too. But they in their room they had, if you can imagine, you open the door, and to the right, there's two beds, one on one wall, one on the other, one next to a window, one next to the door. And then in front of that, and when you open the door, in front of the door is where the dresser is. Okay. And that kind of you need to kind of keep that in mind throughout the story. When she went into the room, a chest of drawers moved towards her, which looked as if it was trying to block her from coming in. When she pushed it back, it again came at her. Determined she shoved it back again. But apparently this spirit was just as determined as she was because for the third time it came at her, but this time, even with all her weight behind it, she couldn't make it budge. In a recorded interview, she recalled what happened. I just couldn't believe it. In fact, I pushed it back twice, and the third time I couldn't move it. Scared the family rushed out of the house to the neighbor's house. Vic decided to take a look for himself. He insisted on looking for a rational cause. He explored the bedroom alone, but then emerged shaken. He claimed he had heard a distinct knocking sound that seemed to follow him around the house. No loose floorboards could explain the tap tap tapping that echoed behind him through the corridors. Vic came out, hair standing on end, to tell Peggy that he hadn't seen a trick or a trap, just something extraordinary. He explained what he witnessed. I heard the knocking as I walked out the front door. I went all over the house and I couldn't make out what it was, so in the end I thought there's only one thing. I'll call the police. So at one AM on september first, two uniformed officers received a radio message to come to the house. The kitchen smelled of cold tea and old carpet. The policeman swept through each room with flashlights, flipping light switches and checking doors. Constable Caroline Heaps heard knocking on the wall and backed up into the that backed up into the neighbor's house. There were four distinct taps on the wall, and then nothing, no logical cause was found. As they prepared to leave, the officer stood in the living room. The oldest boy pointed to the chair that was next to the sofa, eyes fixed. Suddenly the chair began to wobble upright on its legs, and then smoothly slid about a meter across the floor by itself. The officers exchanged stunned looks. No one had touched the chair, yet it lay in the middle of the room. Caroline went around the chair and inspected the area to make sure it wasn't attached to anything. The police were baffled. Peggy realized they too had witnessed the impossible. She described what happened to her. And this is the female police officer. It came off the floor, maybe half an inch I would say, and I saw it slide off to the right about three and a half to four feet before it came to rest. Can you imagine?
SPEAKER_05:That's amazing.
SPEAKER_00:I mean I've seen furniture move. Yeah. But to that extent, I have not. Like nothing crazy like that. Right.
SPEAKER_05:I don't think I've ever seen furniture move.
SPEAKER_04:No, I saw a boar slide across the floor. Yeah, lucky.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah, that's true. But yeah, it's yeah, I don't think I've ever heard any furniture. I mean, have seen any furniture move.
SPEAKER_00:I've been on a chair and it moved. Oh, that's crazy. Probably about two inches, you know. Yeah. That's what you generally see. If you're gonna see furniture move, that's generally what it is. It's just a little bit. A little tiny and you're like, whoa. And then part of you is like, did that actually happen? Right. It's so minute. It's yeah, it's so small. It just reminds me of like with the ghost show. He's trying so hard to like push something that's so little, making all that effort, it's like barely moves, just kind of wobbled a little bit. The officers really wanted to help, but told them there was nothing that they could do because they didn't see anyone actually physically breaking in. Vic, the neighbor, continued calling the press. And finally on the night of September 4th, reporters Douglas Spence and photographer Graham Morris of the Daily Mirror came to investigate. They weren't told what was going on. Just that things were happening in the home. The family huddled at the neighbor's house while the journalist sat alone in the dark. For hours all was silent. They went out to the car to leave, but then Vic came running out. He he told them to come back in, they went inside, and decided to wait until Peggy and the kids came back in. They returned at 2 30 AM, and instantly chaos erupted. A scatter of toy bricks, so Legos, and marbles burst into flight across the living room floor. Graham Morris, focusing on taking as many pictures as he could, was hit on the corner of his eyebrow with the corner of a Lego brick that flew and hit him. So rude. Yeah, and it left a welt for like three days.
unknown:Wow.
SPEAKER_00:That's how hard it hit. Had some speed. Like I watched, I watched the interview of the guy and he's like, it flew right at me. He's like, but it didn't scare me because I was just so focused on taking pictures.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And he was just snapping, snapping, snapping, and when the Lego hit him. But he just kept going. He didn't even stop. Wonder what kind of sound that made. Right. If it hit that hard. Right?
SPEAKER_05:I can't. I don't think I can throw a Lego hard enough to leave a welt for three days on somebody.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and it had to hit because it literally hit him in the corner of his eyebrow, right here. Right.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, right out of the corner of the eye.
SPEAKER_04:So with the corner of the Lego brick.
SPEAKER_05:That's a sensitive spot to get hit, too. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, but that thing had to been flying. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Like I mean 80 mile an hour Lego brick.
SPEAKER_04:Had one of those speed guns on it. Whoa, 98 miles an hour. Lego.
SPEAKER_00:And some of them flew overhead, nearly striking anyone that was in the room. Everyone ducked as more small toys flew from unseen corners. When they tried to pick them up, they were hot to the touch. Isn't that crazy? That's nuts.
SPEAKER_05:That is weird.
SPEAKER_00:So they were trying to pick up marbles, and the marbles were hot.
SPEAKER_04:Glass marbles.
SPEAKER_00:The reporters and neighbors stared in awe and fear, and no prank could have thrown so many objects at once. Now they reported that these were coming out of nowhere. So it's dark. They keep the lights off. Yeah. And out of nowhere they see these toys coming out. Basically, I don't want to say they're coming out of the walls, but they're appearing out of nowhere. Just like manifesting. Yeah, manifesting and getting chugged at them. So it's like, how do you dodge that? You don't. They're coming from all around the room.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's wild.
SPEAKER_04:You're not gonna dodge them all.
SPEAKER_00:No. So Douglas returned the next day explaining that there was nothing that they could do. So they called in reinforcements. The Society for Psychical Research, SPR. The group was set up in 1882 to investigate anything that was not explainable. They don't have any said ideas or opinions or matters, and anyone can join. So it's just basically a big open group, and they have a building that they go and meet at, and anyone can come. You don't have to believe in the same things that they do, but for the most part, most of them believe in the paranormal. But it's it's so big that they have their own building and it's been going on for a hundred years. Over. It's a hundred and two. I mean, I don't know if it's still going, but at that point, yeah. Like how cool is that? By September 5th, members of the Society for Psychical Research had arrived. They assigned Maurice Gross to the case. Maurice had lost his daughter, also named Janet, the year before. He went out of his way to get to know the family. He stepped into the dim living room that evening as the family huddled on the sofa under blankets. The wallpaper was damp with condensation. One chair lay tipped in the corner from an earlier incident. I found chaos, Maurice later admitted. He saw bottles toppled, games scattered, a rocking chair removed from its corner, marbles and Legos again being thrown around the room. He noticed that when the marble was thrown and landed on the ground, it didn't bounce. It just stopped. Isn't it? So it's like it had to have had control over that marble the entire time. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Or a really sticky ground. Ew.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's gross. I doubt that. She was actually really clean. So I doubt the floors were sticky. The family clutched each other as he spoke. Calm, I'll figure this out, he said quietly. Peggy clung to her battered teddy bear as Maurice offered no judgment, only his calm presence and promise to help. At one point, even the three-piece suite was flipped over as well. Can you imagine?
SPEAKER_04:Couches flipped over, chair flipped over, everything.
SPEAKER_05:Just toss on a whole living room.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, he talked to his brother and sister-in-law, talked to her brother and sister-in-law that lived down the street, and they said that if they sat on the chair, that it would turn them around, and that if the kid sat on it, it actually threw one of the kids out. Now keep in mind this chair throughout the entire time that I'm going to be talking about this investigation. Okay. It plays a key role. Three nights later, on September 8th, at 115 AM, a tense hush settled over the girl's bedroom. Janet and Margaret lay asleep under thick quilts on their bed. Suddenly from the corner of the room, a loud crash shattered the silence. The investigators and family rushed in with flashlights. In the corner lay the same wooden chair, overturned and moved nearly a meter from where it had been. Janet and Margaret slept on, breathing softly. The bedroom, once neat, was now a mess. Books lay scattered on the carpet. The crash had come from that chair flying through the air in the shock and dim light. Maurice and everyone there finally understood. Something real, something unexplainable was happening in this house. In the weeks that followed, each night brought new dread. During an EVP session, Maurice asked if it was playing a game with him. Right then, Maurice got hit in the face by a cardboard box and a pillow. So I actually watched that. And all of a sudden, there's so I didn't there's no video evidence. It's all pictures. Yeah. And you'll find out later why. But all of a sudden there's a cardboard box right in front of his face. And then as he's talking, they're showing it as he's talking in the EVP session. And he's like, I just got hit by a cardboard box and a pillow.
SPEAKER_04:Like very matter of fact.
SPEAKER_00:Very matter of fact. It was too funny. So gathered around the living room, a drawer in the cabinets opened by itself. And that's what people were tr starting to understand was these things were not explainable. The things that were happening weren't things that the kids could just do on their own.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_00:The floorboard started to groan under invisible footsteps. Doors refused to stay shut. They would actually slam open by themselves. So, like, I'm assuming like hitting the walls when they would open. Yeah. And in the hallway behind Peggy's bedroom, cold drafts felt like icy fingers brushing the back of one's neck. The family learned to speak in whispers. Little things began to carry great meaning. A flicker of electricity. The air in the house felt changed and charged, as if it were holding its breath for something to come. The girls had fallen asleep in their room, and Morris went in and set up his cameras in their room and stood quietly with the reporters and Peggy. The curtain started to move away from the window. Maurice started taking pictures. It reached across the head of the bed like an arm, and it pulled off one of the girls' covers. This is when Maurice knew he needed more help. Now I actually saw the pictures of that too, and he's going snap, snap, snap. And it looks like there's an arm in the curtain that comes out and is going for the bed. It's wild. Wild. So he needed more help with someone that had more experience than him. One of the reporters said that if he hadn't seen him, seen it himself, he would not believe the photograph was real.
SPEAKER_05:Don't believe that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So what's interesting I find though in this whole investigation is there's always the two reporters and then Maurice the investigator. And now they're gonna add another one. But it's always them. They're staying throughout throughout this entire investigation for months and months and months. 14 months.
SPEAKER_04:Jeez. Dang.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Like they don't, they don't give up. And it's wild. Like I've never heard a story like this. That's why there's so much documentation. It's so neat. So Maurice was at the meeting with SPR learning about poltergeist. And at the end of the meeting, he stood up and stated that he was working on a difficult case and needed help. But the room went really silent and for too long. And there's this guy named Guy Lion Playfair, and he had just finished working on a case in another country and wrote a book about it. And he was like, I wanted to be done. But because the room was silent for so long, he was like, All right, I'll help. And he's like, I'll help out for a few days, maybe a week, and legit, that turned into 14 months.
SPEAKER_04:Dang.
SPEAKER_00:Guy Playfair opened his book on Enfield with a description of what it's like to experience a poltergeist. So after this 14 months, he did end up writing a book. What would you do if a piece of your furniture suddenly slid along the floor on its own in front of your eyes? Think for a moment and be honest with yourself. What would you actually do? Maybe after getting over the initial shock, you would shrug your shoulders, assume it must have been something to do with mice or an earthquake, and just hope it doesn't happen again. But it does happen again and again and again. All sorts of even odder things happen as well. Stones fall on your kitchen floor as if they had come through the ceiling. Somebody or something starts banging on the wall. Things disappear and reappear somewhere else. Before long, you realize that it can't be anything to do with earthquakes or mice, but must be something else, something wholly unexplainable and very frightening. You know these things can't happen, yet you also know they are happening. Whatever you do next or like to think that you would, I can tell you what people who have found themselves in these predicaments have done. As word spreads around that something spooky is going on in your house, you suddenly find your friends pointedly looking in the other way when you pass them on the street. People give you funny looks in the local shops. Passers by stop to stare at your house. You receive malicious phone calls and threatening letters. In short, your life is ruined. On September 10th, it reached national news, and it was also on the front page of the Daily Mirror with a full page spread and the title The House of Strange Happenings. The mirror was respectable newspaper. You didn't get crazy, untruthful stories in it, so when people read it, it was more believed. It was unlike any story that they had covered in the past, and no one had seen an article like this before. The journalists were reporting on their own experiences. Graham Morris, a photographer, started having issues with his camera. He charged all of his flashes, and when he started taking pictures, they all discharged at once. So which is impossible.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:They're not connected.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You can only have one flash. For I mean, can thinking back in the day, right? Right. And they all go off at once, and they are completely drained. The batteries are totally drained.
SPEAKER_04:That's nuts.
SPEAKER_00:They also had an infrared video camera to record in the dark. And when they pressed record, all the lights would turn on. So they literally have no video evidence. None. In the 14 months, something always happened to the the video recorder so that it never worked.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So whatever's doing it wanted to make sure of that. It was like it's it's like it had control over what they could and couldn't do.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because he could take all the pictures that he wanted pretty much.
SPEAKER_04:But no video.
SPEAKER_00:But no video.
SPEAKER_04:That's nuts.
SPEAKER_00:Right? Yeah. So Janet seemed to be the center of it all, the common denominator. It always happened when she was around. The reporters helped the kids with their homework because they pretty much lived there. And they said that she was the brightest of the bunch. She was learning two different languages. She would come back from school and tell them that things were starting to happen there too. And when she was at the store, she would see cans fly off the shelves. But it's actually not surprising. When this kind of rare activity happens, it's most common around kids about to hit puberty. And the reporters of the SPR noticed that. They gave Janet a red cushion and asked her to put it at the bottom of the stairs. So I believe she was in her room when they asked her to do this.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But it wasn't what happened. Eyewitnesses that were walking outside reported that a red cushion appeared out of nowhere, hovering over the roof. Yeah. They were all in shock. In their minds, they couldn't believe it, but they knew it happened. In the same day, the SPRs asked her if she could make something go through the floor into the room below. But instead, they reported that she herself went through the wall into the house next door. And she told them in perfect description of what the room looked like and that she had left something behind. They went over there, no one was home, everybody was gone. She described the room perfectly. And they found a book that belonged to her in that room. And the title of the book was called Fun Games with Children.
SPEAKER_04:Oh jeez.
SPEAKER_00:Oh man. So what I found interesting is the four people that were always there were like, yes, this happened. We don't know how this happened. And then the people that weren't there that were even a part of the paranormal group were like, that's impossible. She can't just unmaterialize and rematerialize in another house. Like that is not physically possible. But yet for People saw it and they're all it happened, like we saw it. And when they were talking about the red cushion, the red cushion, the guy tried to debunk it and was like, well, what if she like went out the window and tossed it and it wouldn't work? The window was closed. He's like, I couldn't even toss it even if I wanted to.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_00:So things crazy things are starting to happen. So determined to make contact, Maurice and Guy Line Play Playfair resorted to old spiritual tricks in November. One moonless night, Peggy spread pens and notepads on each bed and gathered everyone for a seance. Minutes passed intense silence, then suddenly a scrap of paper appeared pinned to the refrigerator door. A stark warning scrawled across it. I will stay in this house. Do not read this to anyone, or I will retaliate. The letters were thick and jagged as if dragged by an unseen fingertip. Peggy's eyes were filled with tears, and the message was clear. The entity felt threatened and demanded respect. The family huddled together, shaken by the voice from beyond. Things in the house started to escalate if it wasn't already escalated enough.
SPEAKER_04:Right? It's like this is already intense. How much further we want to go here?
SPEAKER_00:The levitating started. It started small and it got worse over time. And it started with the girls just sliding off their beds. Then they were tossed off their beds. And it quickly turned into Janet being thrown about five feet across the room with the pictures to boot. So mind you, what they do is they wait for the kids to go to sleep. Once the kids go to sleep, they all go in the room and will just they'll set up their cameras and then wait. Because they're noticing that Janet is the source of this.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_00:So they're trying to figure out what's going on. There was a a woman who they call the lollipop lady. Her name's Hazel Short. She was a crossing guard working in front of the house. Looking up, during her break, she gasped. Through the bedroom window, she saw Janet's body rising and falling in midair. The girl's limbs lay horizontal as if someone invisible held her back and tossed her legs upward. Hazel described it. Janet was going up and down as though someone had gotten a hold of her legs and back and was throwing her up and down. Meanwhile, another passerby, John Rainbow, also witnessed the body of Janet floating off of the bed. He too was convinced that she could not have jumped that high on her own. On the night of November 26th, a haunting took on a new, surreal quality. After one particular frightening episode, Janet had been given a strong sedative by the doctor. Just before dawn, Janet's uncle John crept quietly up the staircase to check in on her. In the pale glow of a flashlight, he found something impossible. Janet lay asleep, limp and unconscious, on top of a turned on radio sitting atop a chest of drawers. The radio dial glowed faintly in the darkness. Graham Morris snapped a quick photo to document it. Even sedated, Janet was balancing atop a noisy radio as if carried there by invisible hands. No doubt remain remained for any skeptic. The house power had lifted the girl and placed her on that device. It legit looked like you took a like a cat, picked it up by its stomach, and just put it on top of the radio. Weird. That's exactly what she looked like. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And we're not talking about like a little boombox radio. We're talking about a big decent size fashion radio.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but it and it wasn't like tall tall, right? So I mean, she was probably four foot, I'm guessing, in the air. Maybe a little bit more, because I'm not sure how tall the men were. But comparing it to them, I'm guessing like the top of the radio is about four and a half feet in the air. And it's sitting on top of a dresser. So and that the radio is probably a foot high.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And they're not like flat either.
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_00:No. No, they're like curved and they have like antique designs and stuff. And she's like on that. And I don't know how. I guess because she did have a sedative, but how you could stay asleep on something like that? It just blows my mind.
SPEAKER_05:Was she flat, like straight?
SPEAKER_00:No. She was like it's literally like a limp noodle on top of my.
SPEAKER_05:Oh my gosh. Okay. Yeah. So she's bent in it. She's breathed over it. She's yeah, she's bent backwards over it.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know if she was backwards or she was. I think she was more for like on her belly.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, okay. Still. I mean I mean, I've seen our kid fall asleep weird like that, but when they're little.
SPEAKER_00:When they're little, you're not eleven.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:A few nights later, the spirit struck again. On November 28th, as Peggy and Margaret slept upstairs, a violent jolt hurled Janet across the room. With a shriek, Peggy bolted out of her bed and the girls' mattresses had been flipped, and Janet had been flung onto the floor. In the half light, Peggy found her daughter lying at the bottom of the stairs. The bedroom door stood wide open, and no human hand was to be seen. Janet was shaken and bewildered, but unhurt. In the eerie silence that night, only the ticking clock of Janet's soft and Janet's soft sobs filled the air. Once more the empty house had flung a child as if weightless. Now that's some pretty powerful crap.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:To throw her off the bed and then to pick her up and throw I don't know if he threw her, but she was at the bottom of the stairs.
SPEAKER_05:Drugged, thrown, carried.
SPEAKER_00:Either way, it doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_05:And the fact that she I mean she wouldn't have fallen down the stairs, right? Because you figured that would have woke somebody up. So to even carry someone gently and place them at the bottom of the stairs while they're still asleep.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Pretty impressive.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Suddenly the haunting acquired a voice. On the night of December t December 10th, Maurice and the psychologist, John Belof, set up tape recorders and quietly urged the spirit to speak through Janet. At first only soft whistles and low growls replied. Then Janet's lips parted, and a deep, gruff male's voice answered clearly through her while awake and totally alert. It scared her. She couldn't feel the voice in her throat. She felt it coming from the lower back of her head. The old man's voice spoke in clipped, precise words. It identified itself as Joe Watson, and answered questions distinctly, even though Janet's lips and tongue had remained still. The group froze. This was no child mimicking an old man. This was the voice of a spirit claiming to be trapped in that girl's body. They had experts coming in, throat doctors, ventriloquists. The throat doctor said the sounds were coming from her false vocal cords in the back of her throat. But if it were coming from her, she would have been hoarse within a few seconds. And she would have been clearing her throat, and no one would be able to continue speaking like that. But she would do this for an hour straight, days on end, never clearing her throat and never getting hoarse. So I actually heard the recordings and I watched. There is video evidence of that. And you would hear, I mean, it's deep. I don't know if a a girl physically that young could go that deep.
SPEAKER_04:Could go that deep. Yeah. With the voice. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And it would talk um like this. Eh, uh, uh when it would talk. Yeah. And um, the guy, uh Maurice, he tried to do it and he could only do it for a few seconds and then had to start clearing his throat. He's like, there's no way. Like we would sit there and ask her questions for an hour. And at one point, they did it for three hours. Not once did she clear her throat, and not once did she go hoarse. Because in between, she would talk normal to them. She'd be like, I don't know why this is going on. Like, I feel it, and she'd show them, like, she's like, I feel it right here. I don't feel it in my throat. Isn't that odd? That is so odd.
SPEAKER_05:So, so strange.
SPEAKER_00:By the next night, the spirit revealed its true identity. On December 13th, 1977, Janet sat in a trance, speaking in a gravelly accent. When Maurice whispered to her, What happened when you died? The voice answered, I went blind, and I had a hemorrhage, and I fell asleep, and I died on a chair in the corner downstairs. I came here to see my family, but they are not here. I heard that recording. It's wild.
SPEAKER_04:That's crazy.
SPEAKER_00:Wild. The investigators exchanged grave looks. Through the frightened mouth of the eleven-year-old, they now had the name and story. The restless soul was William Bill, aka Bill Wilkins, who claimed to have died in that very house decades ago. Janet, speaking in that old man's voice, continued the narrative softly under her breath. The discovery sent chills through everyone present. They actually never looked this up. But Guy wrote it in his book about a and it was just a book on Enfield. And after it was published, a man came to him and said, I think that's my dad. We used to live in that house.
SPEAKER_02:Oh my.
SPEAKER_00:And that's exactly how he died.
SPEAKER_04:Oh jeez.
SPEAKER_00:And that chair is the same chair that they still had in there. Same chair. Those nights that followed were a blur of terror. On December 17th, psychic Matthew Manning spent hours conversing with Bill through Janet and observing the room. He saw objects move on their own. Guy Playfair's tape recorder leapt off the table and crashed to the floor, then vanished, only to be found moments later under a toppled chest of drawers. On December 23rd, another shock. The Hodgshins discovered both their goldfish floating dead in their tank. The glass bowl lay cracked and warm to the touch. The family was heartbroken. When they questioned Janet, still in a trance, Bill chuckled through her. I did that, he said calmly, claiming that he had electrocuted the creatures with a jolt of spirit energy. The room was deathly quiet, no one wanted to perform another dangerous test. But Maurice could not resist. He half filled Janet's mouth with water and taped her lips shut to prevent ventriloquism. Still, when Bill spoke through her on tape, the voice remained clear and accurate. Wow wild. Christmas Day nineteen seventy seven brought another new horror. Later that afternoon, the girl sat quietly by the living room window when the curtains beside Janet suddenly began to twist. In an instant they coiled slowly around her wrists and neck, pinning her against the sash. Eight times during this case, the heavy drapes would spiral like ropes around one of the children, and each time Peggy had to rush forward, prying the fabric off of her daughters. There is video, or not video, there is photographs of this.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_00:So when the first instant that I told you about with it going over her bed and pulling off her covers, it was twisted. You saw it come out and twist, and then you see it reach out and grab the blanket. It's wild. Wild.
SPEAKER_05:That's so weird.
SPEAKER_00:An ominous message appeared on the back of the bathroom door. Strips of copper-colored insulating tape had been painstakingly arranged to spell out the words I am Fred. Twenty strips of tape made that word. The tape had been locked in a cabinet, and no one in the family had been in that bathroom that night. The message was high and out of reach. The investigator stood in awe, convinced that only the poltergeist could have cut and placed each piece of tape. Through the winter and into the spring, Peggy became a vigilant record keeper. By April 1978, she had logged over 155 incidences in her notebook. She wrote of small fires that would burst into flame for no reason, and of looming shapes moving at the edge of your vision. One entry described torches of orange flame springing to life in the unit's fireplace and even dancing on cold matchboxes. And one of the investigators actually saw that.
SPEAKER_04:Nope.
SPEAKER_00:No. And with things being hot to take a touch? In another, she noted that pale human silhouettes had appeared momentarily in the hallway corners. The investigators were amazed, and the small fires and the fleeing apparitions once rare were now a commonplace. It seemed the spirits were showing itself more boldly than ever. On may thirtieth, nineteen seventy eight, it brought a new kind of terror. That afternoon, Janet and Margaret were playing quietly in the back garden. Suddenly, without a warning, a shower of stones came hurling over the fence. A fistful of pebbles pinged into the patio around their feet. Then larger rocks came, one of them a brick sized chunk of concrete flew through the air, landing with a thud. Shrieking the girls fled into the house as stones kept materializing in the garden. Neighbors even ran out, bewildered. One even accused an imaginary assailant of throwing the rocks at him. But when he went outside, no one was there. For minutes it seemed to be as if invisible hands were lobbying the stones. Then as suddenly as it had begun, it stopped. The only evidence left were chips of mortar and two frightened little girls. In July 1978, Janet went to the hospital to get some tests done. With Janet safely away, the household finally grew still. Doctors at the hospital ran tests on Janet but found nothing physically amiss. She was healthy mentally and was getting the rest that she needed. In her absence, the cold spots, slamming doors, and flying objects stopped. The family almost began to breathe again. But when she came back home, the family went on a little vacation to Essex. Peggy's brother John was looking after the home and thought for sure that Janet's gone, nothing would happen at the house. But he was about to be proved wrong. Morris recorded his story. This is uh what I heard him say verbatim on a recording. I went into the house to retrieve a clock. I got up to the bedroom door, the door opened on its own. I saw the doorknob twist, like somebody was turning the doorknob from the other side. As I walked into the room, the door closed behind me. I collected the alarm clock, turned around, walked towards the door, and the door handle turned on its own and opened wide enough for me to walk out normally. I quickly went down the stairs and I left. But if that wasn't enough to scare him off, he went back a second time. He said, I saw something sitting there at the living room table, a man. He was sitting with his back towards me, sitting on the chair at the table. He had a white and blue striped shirt on, grey hair, not too thick. I looked at him and in my mind I thought, What is your game, mate? What are you doing here? I was about to say something, but then realized the house I was in, and I closed my eyes for a second and blinked and he was gone. I left the house like a rocket. I was scared. I came back and said to my wife, I'm sorry, there is no way I'm going back inside that house. I believe that place is haunted. Janet was alone in the dark kitchen when she suddenly exclaimed that she saw someone standing in the corner. When Peggy rushed in, the room was empty, but Janet described the figure, a pale young boy, maybe ten years old, standing motionless in the shadows. He made no sound. Peggy and the adults searched everywhere but found no one. Whatever it was, the ghost or spectre appeared to be keeping watch the moment she stepped back inside. The house had stirred again at Janet's return. A fortnight later, on october second, nineteen seventy eight, the family called in a Dutch medium, Donno Mailing, to cleanse the house. Donno walked quietly to the girl's room alone, muttering soft prayers and waving his arms as if brushing away cobwebs. Twenty minutes later, he simply announced it is finished. To everyone's amazement, after that day, the violent incidents all but ceased. No longer did furniture crash or voices bellow. By November, only occasional creaks and small knocks were heard. Events so mild that the neighbors barely noticed. The fact that the neighbors are noticing, that tells you. Because they did have incidences where the neighbors could hear the knocks and they could hear the crashes.
SPEAKER_04:So it was pretty loud.
SPEAKER_00:So it was very loud. Yeah. And what I also find interesting is that the spirits that are that they're seeing are all male. And when the voice would come out of her, it was male. It was male. And then the written name on the wall. Male. Male. One Sunday in late 1978, a newspaper even ran a brief piece noting that the house was quieting down at last. The age of nightly terror seemed over. Janet later said that for the first time in years she was able to sleep through the night without fear. Indeed, after October 1979, there were only rare isolated incidences. The house had finally fallen silent. Maurice Gross recorded some of his thoughts on the Enfield case. Quote, Miss Hodgson had been a very strong character. If it hadn't been for her strength, I doubt whether we would have continued with this investigation as far as we've gotten. I think that in some respect this case has been remarkable for the amazing way that the people were involved in it. The Hodgson family, the Burkhams, and the Nottinghams have behaved during the whole investigation. They have behaved with enormous amount of common sense. The incredible lack of hysteria at any time has been quite remarkable. Considering that some of these things have happened have been very frightening indeed. The Hodgsons have evidence that the poltergeist wasn't confined to the house, even though it was there more than anywhere else. So its existence outside of the house undermined the motive to change locations. They had lived in that house for more than a decade without previous poltergeist activity, and moving would have taken them away from their friends and their family in the area. Furthermore, they had two SPR investigators working with them, Gross and Playfair, who had access to other people who could help and other resources, and those investigations would often stay in the house with the Hodgsons and help them in other ways. Moving would have risked losing or diminishing that sort of support, which would be problematic in the poltergeist if the poltergeist followed them to where they went. The Hodgsons were a low-income family living in a public housing, and trying to get moved to another house on the basis of an alleged poltergeist would arouse suspicion. Throughout the ordeal, the Hodgsons and the investigators remained unwavering in their belief that this was no hoax, but a genuine haunting, from Peggy's first terrified call in August 1977 to the Dutch medium in 1979.
SPEAKER_05:That's kind of a crazy set of stories, though.
SPEAKER_04:Well, it's one big story. Well, yeah. But yeah, the uh the happenings of it all is just it's kind of mind-boggling. It's one thing after another after another after another. Consistent.
SPEAKER_05:But you know, it has a similar feeling.
SPEAKER_04:What's that?
SPEAKER_05:To uh Andrea Perone.
SPEAKER_04:Mm. Okay.
SPEAKER_05:To the Perone family. Which is why I don't think this was William or Bill or Fred. I don't think it was human at all.
SPEAKER_04:Maybe not, just given well, and it seemed to have a like a mean streak.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Like if it was really like William, okay, and he's like, oh, I I died here, this is what happened, and I came back and I'm looking for my family, but they're not here. Okay, that's one thing. But the streak of cruelty about it, like electrocuting the fish?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, see, in my opinion, I do think that guy came in at some point. At a point. I think he saw an opportunity, took that opportunity, went with it. But I also think it's hard for spirits in general to have that much energy to continue that all the time. Exactly. So, in my opinion, I when it comes to evil things, there's never just one. Oh yeah, there's multiple. I mean for I shouldn't say never, but for the most part, they come in groups. Yeah. And they'll get you from all sides. And I'm sure they all wanted in on this. This was a perfect prime opportunity for them.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, and they were having fun with it. Oh yeah. You know they were.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_05:It's just interesting, like, because yeah, there's there is the reported nature of hauntings and and paranormal activity, especially amongst females, right, around puberty.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_05:But why the stop? Like that's the part that is like Okay, I get the start, but it's just like the medium comes in, has a conversation, it's over.
SPEAKER_00:I wonder also, though, if things were already starting to die down and hormones are starting to get regulated. Right.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, it's been two years. It started in 77 and ended in 79.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but it was like a year and a half, if a little less than a year and a half, actually. But I I really wonder if it was like they rode that train for as long as they could. And then once the medium came in, it was like, let's just be done with this. Yeah. And that's where it ends. And it, but it at the same time, it didn't actually completely end.
SPEAKER_05:Kind of just pittered.
SPEAKER_00:It pittered. And there were other things that happened for the years to come after that, but were just so minute. They're like, meh. Right compared to everything else. It's not clean. Meh. Like, it's fine.
SPEAKER_05:People like you know, just disappearing of matter and reappearing in another spot and then reappearing back where it started.
SPEAKER_00:But there is also the fact that there are people that are disputing this, saying that the girl that did this, she's the one that's the extrovert. She's the one that loved gymnastics. Who's to say she didn't flop on top of that radio herself and just slept walk?
SPEAKER_02:Sure.
SPEAKER_00:Because that is a thing with you know, people take ambient and they sleepwalk, or they, you know, they'll fight it and then fall asleep wherever. You know, who's to say that didn't happen?
SPEAKER_05:And okay, so that can account for the one in the case. But let's count for that. Right. Like, and that's fine. Like that can be understandable, right? Like, yeah, you take a heavy sedative, like an ambient. Of course, it's a pre-ambien, right? But sure, could be a good one. Could have had the same effect. She could have woke up at the bottom, she could have fallen asleep or sleptwalked down the stairs, fallen asleep. Sure. I mean, heck. When I was a kid or a teenager, I sleptwalked from my friend's house to my house in the middle of winter.
SPEAKER_00:That's impressive.
SPEAKER_05:And woke up in my bed.
SPEAKER_00:That's impressive.
SPEAKER_05:Now, granted, it's not that far. It was like half a block, but still, it's still the middle of a North Dakota winter.
SPEAKER_00:That's so cold.
SPEAKER_05:I'm like, where are my shoes?
SPEAKER_00:How'd I get here?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But also, if you think like um her getting thrown out of bed, they have video evidence, or not video. I keep saying that. Pictures. Picture evidence.
SPEAKER_05:Photographic evidence.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, of that happening. Like rapid fire. If you look at it, there's like four pictures or so of that happening. If you look, it looks like she's jumping out of the bed. Sure. It definitely looks like the way that her legs are and they tuck and then they go back down. It looks like she's jumping out of the bed.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But also, because she is a gymnast or just likes gymnastics in general, maybe that's just a natural movement for her. Is like she's getting thrown so she tucks her feet so she doesn't hit anything and then puts them down when she lands. Right. Because you're trained to do that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:But that explains in some of these instances, right? Like you can explain some of them away.
SPEAKER_04:You can explain a lot of it. But yeah.
SPEAKER_05:How do you explain her going to the neighbor's house and back? How do you explain the cushion being seen by bystanders on the top of the building?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Like it's those things that don't those things don't add up.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_05:Like you can you could explain away the other ones as okay, she's pranking some of the things. Or how about you f you cover that lady's mouth with tape and fill it full of water or her mouth full of water.
SPEAKER_04:And the voice still. And the voice is still coming out. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And the thing is, is if you ever watch a ventriloquist when they're talking, right? Even if their mouth is closed when they're doing it or very, very open, you can see their throat moving. You can see the the motion of speech.
SPEAKER_00:They tested her and her vocal cords were not being used.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, so like they were trying to do all of the scientific things. So like it's like, okay, explain that one. Explain the cushion. Explain the book.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_05:Those are the ones that are like fantastical. The other ones, sure. See you could you could kind of explain away as circumstantial.
SPEAKER_00:In my mind also, though, if I'm I typically like to debunk, right? And in my mind, she already probably knows what the neighbor's house looks like. And she may have already left that book in there from a previous time that she had been in the house. So for me, it's like I I could s I could venture that one away. I could see how she could describe that room to a T and have a book left in there, knowing that she had already left a book in there previously. Like in my mind, I could explain that away. But also you have four grown men that saw that happen.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_00:How d how does that I mean I've never heard of a person actually going through a wall like a real person, yeah. Spirits, of course. Sure. Yeah. But an actual person I've never. Yeah. This is the only incident that I've ever heard of.
SPEAKER_05:But it's fantastical in that sense.
SPEAKER_00:How do you explain the chair? The police officer experiencing it.
SPEAKER_02:Seeing it.
SPEAKER_00:30 people. 30 people have been in that house, have witnessed something. 30 people.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:How do you explain that? I can't. Well, that's the thing, right?
SPEAKER_05:Like, if you have people that are living there, staying there, right? And they're documenting it because they're doing it as investigative reporters, as investigators, right? It's like, okay, this door, no one's been in all night. We stayed at someone was up the entire night. No one's been in that room. And oh, by the way, there's tape on the wall saying, I am Fred, and it's at a position and a height that's not possible for the kids to do.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Not with like a ladder, a little step stool or something.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:But then you also have to think they're a poor family. They probably don't have a ton of stuff. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And it's not like they own the house. So why would they actually need a ladder? You know? Like you have to kind of put into perspective some of these things that it to debunk what's going on. The lady, she's a like she kept her house clean. And so there it's not like the toys were out everywhere all over the floor.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And to have these people witness it and everybody's huddled together and toys are flying everywhere. From all directions. From all directions coming out of the darkness. Like, how do you explain that? You can't. The marbles being hot. How do you explain that? You can't.
SPEAKER_05:No. And and that's the part that like we know spirits can make things hot or cold, depending on what they w what type of energy they're using.
SPEAKER_00:Right. I've been in I have investigated a home where the fish tank um heat was turned up and killed all the fish by a spirit.
SPEAKER_05:And that was a uh like a three, right? In type three?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Right. And so that's why I'm saying that I think this is more of a type three style of haunting than a human spirit. Just from the from the evil nature of things, plus the power. Like it seemed like non-ending power.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and I wonder if it was just one spirit after another after another. Taking their turn. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:I mean And they could have. I mean, it could have just been like, all right, you got tonight, you got tomorrow night, you got the night after that, and then I'm I'll have my energy back, so we'll just kind of like rotate.
SPEAKER_00:And I r I that's how I think it happened. I don't see it happening with one particular entity. I really don't. As a multitude. Yeah. Because if you think about it, they're selfish.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:There's no way they're just gonna let one of them have all the fun.
SPEAKER_05:Right. They're gonna enjoy it. It's gonna be a party time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:It's it's interesting though, is the question of us is why. Generally speaking, threes need to be invited in that in in somewhat some form of fashion.
SPEAKER_00:Who's to say it wasn't? Who's to say it wasn't? Well, if we just don't know what it is.
SPEAKER_05:We just don't know, right? Right. We just don't know what she was dealing with, how she was feeling, what her her mindset was, what she was doing at school.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and the question is for me too, is maybe she was sensitive to this stuff. Maybe she was like how I was growing up.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And maybe because she's sensitive, she is a target because that's how it was for me. When I started becoming a teenager, it got insane for me. I had to do everything in my power to keep it at bay. And it still would come. So if you can imagine maybe she is the type that is sensitive and maybe she doesn't have any religion in her home or what have you, because it doesn't talk about religion at all. Right.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And for me, I grew up very, very religious, and maybe that was like a shield for me, some sort of protectant. So it could only get so far. Where if maybe she didn't have that, it was almost like an open playing field.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Is she still alive?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, she'd be I believe Janet died in 2006.
SPEAKER_05:Okay. So she would have died younger, because like in she would have been born in the sixties, and so that she'd be eighty today. No, sixtiesome today. So she would have died young.
SPEAKER_00:Shoot yeah, yeah. I mean, she was eleven in seventy seven.
SPEAKER_05:She was born in sixty-six, sixty-five. So that's only sixty years ago.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:Wow.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe it was 2016.
SPEAKER_05:But still, I mean, still that's still when you when you consider the age of things, you still consider that young.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But they never denied it. None of them. The family, the daughters, and I think the daughters um were the one of them, I believe, is still alive. The oldest one. Um but the mom and I believe the daughter is dead, but so maybe it was just the mom that died.
SPEAKER_05:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So there's So it says AI says she is not dead.
SPEAKER_05:Okay. So So there's me okay, so she's yeah, she we she should be in her sixties, and I wonder if how open she is to talking about her experiences. Like sometimes things are so traumatic and so rough that you just don't ever want to talk about it again.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Well, I could see that Yeah, I couldn't blame anybody for not wanting to to to talk and say, hey, look, you know, that's in the past. I'm done with that. I don't want to I don't want to discuss that anymore.
SPEAKER_04:I don't want to bring it up because it's like reliving it.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and I wonder, um, I think they've done interviews because of the Conjuring 2.
SPEAKER_05:Was that on the infield?
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_05:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:And um I think it the one that I didn't see any of them, but I saw a picture and I believe it was Margaret the older one. I don't know if Jana actually was a part of that interview or not. I mean, you would think her picture would be the main picture that they showed, not Margaret. But I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:Nuts. Absolutely. Nuts, nuts, nuts.
SPEAKER_05:It's such a good story though. It is. Like when you consider like the the level of of information out there on it. And it's probably w probably one of the most well-known paranormal stories out there.
SPEAKER_00:Oh no. It says it's Janet and Margaret. They are both they both do the interview. Oh, nice. Okay.
SPEAKER_05:We'll have to watch that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, something we can look up and watch. Yeah, I'd be interested to see that interview.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, that's a little crazy. I can't imagine going through those things. And experiencing that and then seeing stuff. Yeah, stuff not just moving, right? But like moving a lot and far in a lot of stuff. Or being pelted in the face by a marble that got tossed from somewhere.
SPEAKER_04:That was a Lego.
SPEAKER_05:Either way.
SPEAKER_04:Um The marbles were hot. Yeah, the marbles are hot.
SPEAKER_05:But I think the other thing too, though, is like if you okay, if you want to discount some of the stuff that was happening, right? The ones that doesn't make any sense is what about the arm coming from the drapes?
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_05:And those things that they have photographic evidence of things, unless everybody's in on a hoax.
SPEAKER_00:That'd be a lot of people.
SPEAKER_05:Be a lot of people.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and the fact that I watched so many actual interviews with the investigators and uh with the reporters, and they were like just as wanting to debunk things as I am. And when you watch them, they were like, there were times when um we would catch the girls bending spoons on their own and trying to create evidence because um newspapers and you know uh news stations would come in and they would feel like they had to be a monkey, like dance monkey dance. Right. And they would have to make things happen. And so the girls did admit that there was a couple of times where they felt like they had to perform because they didn't want to be felt like they were liars. Right. So if nothing happened, then they didn't want to be look be looked at as a liar. And they're young. And I can I I get that because when I used to um take people on investigations all the time, you really feel like you have to perform. Like you feel like if you if you don't make something happen, then everybody's gonna be disappointed and they're gonna want to go home and leave.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Or they're gonna say this was a terrible time. But I never faked any evidence, but you really try as hard as you can to get things to happen. Yeah. So that everybody has a good time and enjoys it. And I can imagine when you're these two girls in this situation, that there were probably a couple times where they were like, Well, I don't know, what should we do? And there are two young girls trying to figure this out in a problem that they shouldn't have been having to deal with in the first place. Right.
SPEAKER_05:And the other thing too, though, is when we think about it, right? So the Daily Mirror's there, they're doing their thing, right? But another newspaper comes in, they're only there for three hours in an interview, nothing happens, other girls are liars. And they it's a joke, right?
SPEAKER_00:Did come to try to debunk.
SPEAKER_05:And then so they they go away, and now all of a sudden they're liars, and everything is false. And so obviously, the you you want people to believe you that the real stuff is happening. So you yeah, I can I could see trying to fake stuff just to just so people would take you serious with everything else.
SPEAKER_04:Well, yeah, and just given their age, too.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. It's one thing when you're 11 and 13 doing it, it's another thing when you're 40 years old and doing it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, don't do it. Yeah, because by the time it all ended, it started when the mom was 43, and so she was forty-five when it ended. And the kids were 11, 12, 13. Ended when they were like 13 and 15-ish.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Crazy stuff, man.
SPEAKER_05:Crazy stuff. But if you guys enjoyed this story, which we really hope you did, because this was a good one. Um please uh please like and subscribe to us. And as always, stay ghosty my peeps.
SPEAKER_03:Hello. Hello. Yeah.
unknown:Wow.
SPEAKER_03:Oh shit. Oh, it's like me talking. Like gonna come. Come on. Special window. Yeah, back on the whole that I'm gonna. Oh god. Come on with the crowd, I go back to crab, Mr. Crab, Mr. Club Mr.
SPEAKER_01:Cross Mr. Cross Quick Mr. Gross! Oh, it's not like that. She was not leaf. She's not me.
