The Lemp Mansion Curse

A beer empire. A 33-room mansion. A cave system underneath it all. Then the gunshots start, the family name collapses, and the house develops a reputation that refuses to die. We’re Josh, Jamie, and Elisa, and we’re taking you deep into the Lemp Mansion story in St. Louis, Missouri, where real American history and modern paranormal reports collide in the same hallways. 

We walk through the rise of Western Brewery, the German-American influence that made lager a powerhouse, and the way the Lemp home was literally built on top of the caves that stored the business. From there, the timeline turns brutal: Frederick’s death, William Lemp Sr’s unraveling, Billy Lemp Jr’s scandal and the Lavender Lady drama, and the way Prohibition accelerates the end of a dynasty. If you’ve ever searched “Lemp Mansion curse” or “haunted bed and breakfast St. Louis,” the backstory is the reason the ghost stories hit harder. 

Then we get into the hauntings people still report today: the attic legend of Zeke and the “Monkey Boy,” marbles that seem to roll against gravity, toys that shift, and voices that whisper “Play with me.” We talk mirrors that show figures who aren’t in the room, second-floor pacing and deadbolts, lavender perfume that follows guests, objects that move in the dining room, and the caves below where the vibe turns darker with the Shadow Man and physical encounters. 

If you like paranormal investigation details, EVP stories, and haunted location history that actually connects to the people who lived there, this one’s loaded. Subscribe, share it with a friend who loves haunted houses, and leave a review with one question: would you spend the night in the Lemp Mansion?

Thank you for listening to the Paranormal Peeps Podcast.  Check us out on Facebook Paranormal Peeps Podcast or Coldspot Paranormal Research and on Instagram coldspot_paranormal_research

Transcript

Welcome To Paranormal Peeps

SPEAKER_07 0:00

Between the realm of the dead and the journeys of the living, join Josh, Jamie, and Elisa as they delve into the vast world of the paranormal and breathe life back into the history of the departed.

SPEAKER_03 0:11

Hey everybody, welcome back to the Paranormal Peeps Podcast. I'm Josh.

SPEAKER_05 0:16

I'm Jamie, and I'm Elisa.

SPEAKER_03 0:18

Elisa, what are we talking about today?

SPEAKER_05 0:22

We are talking about the Lemp Mansion. Adam Lemp was born in 1798 in Germany. And he arrived in the United States in 1836 and then settled in St. Louis in 1838. So I know there was like a bunch of Germans that came over and settled there. And I've seen even other ghost hunts that have been in St. Louis done on the like you watch on TV or whatever. And then when they get EVPs, they're in German. Oh, that's really cool. Like so cool. But then he also became a U.S. citizen in 1841. And he started a family grocery store and sold his own vinegar and beer. And by 1840, he put all of his focus on the manufacturing and selling of beer by creating the Western Brewery. Adam Lump's beer became popular due to the increase of the German population. And he was one of the first in the country to produce the well, I guess you would say it in German. Um Lega? Lager?

SPEAKER_07 1:37

It means lager, but it's in German.

SPEAKER_05 1:39

But they say it Lager Is it L-E-I-G-E-R. No. L-A-G-E-R.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

L-A-G-E-R.

SPEAKER_05 1:46

Lager.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:48

But we say it Lager or something. Anyways.

SPEAKER_03 1:51

Lager. Oh yeah.

Adam Lemp Builds A Beer Empire

SPEAKER_05 1:56

Lager. Which made a big difference from normally they were drinking the English ale and Porter's, right? His company grew big enough to need more storage, so they went to the St. Louis Caves and used that as natural refrigeration. Which I'm like, I wouldn't have thought of that, but of course they would back then.

SPEAKER_07 2:20

That's a great idea, actually. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:22

The temperature was very consistent at all seasons. Right. In caves.

SPEAKER_03 2:26

Yeah, usually about a 60 degrees.

SPEAKER_07 2:28

Yeah, 50 degrees.

SPEAKER_05 2:28

60, 65, yeah. 55 is what it is. Nice. And then, um, so the cave is actually underneath the lemp house and the brewery. Oh, that's interesting, right?

SPEAKER_03 2:44

So talk about a talk about a wine cellar or beer cellar in this case. You just like go from your your house and down the secret staircase into your big old beer cave, and like, ha, I can just go.

SPEAKER_07 2:57

I wonder, did did they have like a secret way down from the house into the cave? It never said. Oh, dang, that was.

SPEAKER_05 3:04

There's cool things that they built inside the cave that we'll talk about. Okay, awesome. Yeah. So Adam's son, William J. Lempt Sr., was born in Germany in 1835, and in 1861, he married his wife Julia. So obviously he was born in Germany, but then they brought him here. And she was known as the mother of the brewery. Julia was a socialite and the glue that held the family together. They ended up having eight children. Anna, William Jr., which they called Billy, Lewis, Charles, Frederick, Hilda, Elsa, and Edwin. William worked at the brewery, but then enlisted in the U.S. Army. But they raised those eight kids in a house that was designed to be like a palace, but eventually felt more like a mausoleum. Built above the caves, William and Julia built a beautiful two-story white brick mansion in the 1860s. And it was like 6,000 square feet. Whoa. That's huge back then. I mean it's big now.

SPEAKER_03 4:10

It's huge now.

SPEAKER_05 4:11

It's huge now. But like way bigger back then. Yeah. Right? Because back then it was like a thousand square feet.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

Yeah, they're like 2,000 was a big mansion. And you're like, that's barely a home now anymore.

SPEAKER_05 4:24

Right? Because I tell my kids all the time, like, they're like, man, I wish we could live in a bigger house. I'm like, yeah, me too. But think about it, back in the day, our house would be a mansion.

SPEAKER_04 4:32

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_05 4:35

So this mansion has 33 rooms, a loft, a grand hall, patio gazebo, and a coach house. But unfortunately, the home wouldn't be a place of safety and peace. The family would soon become victims of what people would later call the Lemp Curse. On August 23rd, 1862, Adam Lemp passed away from a serious health complication, which meant that Billy, which would be Billy Jr., had to return to Western Brewery as the owner and operator. And two years later, he started building a larger brewery above the caves where they stored their goods. Because of him, it became the largest brewery outside of New York and the first beer to go nationwide because he ended up creating a refrigerated train car.

SPEAKER_07 5:26

Oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_05 5:28

Yeah. So cool.

SPEAKER_03 5:31

That's that's ingenious in the in the sense.

SPEAKER_07 5:34

Well, in a right, in a sense, he took it to the next level after his dad passed away.

SPEAKER_03 5:38

Well, right. The interesting thing is that before that time we had no refrigeration in the train cars. Yeah. Which means things like oysters and other things that were actually shipped to Salt Lake City, um never would have been shipped here. So he's single-handedly, I mean, for his beer, of course, right? But single-handedly revolutionized the whole shipping rail industry.

SPEAKER_05 6:04

Yep. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

Amazing.

SPEAKER_05 6:07

Very much an entrepreneur. So Billy Lemp Jr. was born on August 13th, 1867, and he went to St. Louis University and studied brewery. But it was William's fourth son, Frederick, that was born six years after Billy, who became William's golden boy. And Frederick was named after William's closest lifelong friend, Frederick Pabst. In a move that likely caused tension among the siblings, William Sr. bypassed his eldest son, Billy, to name Frederick as the heir apparent. William Sr. saw in Frederick the work ethic and the temperament necessary to run the global brewery powerhouse. I mean, if you can imagine, like it would be super hard to own and create something that big and then have to leave it to a kid that doesn't care. Or that's not as good. And when you could see potential in another, that would be tough.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

I find it interesting that his friend was Paps, because that is also the name of another beer. So I wonder if that is actually that line.

SPEAKER_05 7:22

It is.

SPEAKER_03 7:24

How about having that kind of a friendship with people? Yeah, we're all breweries. We're all brewers.

SPEAKER_05 7:28

There was like there was a few brewers in St. Louis.

SPEAKER_03 7:32

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:33

And so and they all used the caves as their refrigeration. But theirs just was the biggest. So while Billy Jr. was often seen as a flamboyant playboy, Frederick was considered serious and dedicated and their true intellectual successor to the family business. But little did anybody know that Frederick's heart was going to fail when he was just 28 years old. This event tore William up. He started to emotionally fall apart. He was seen pacing his bedroom floor while taking while talking to Frederick's spirit, hoping that he would hear him. He did this for years. His friend was the only one that could reach out to him and help him out of his depression. But no matter what Papst did, William still became despondent and slowly declined. And on New Year's Day in 1904, less than three years later, his best friend, Papst, passed away too. William couldn't handle it anymore. And on February 13th, 1904, I wonder if it was a Friday.

SPEAKER_03 8:40

Good find out.

SPEAKER_05 8:41

Can you imagine? Was the day that transformed the mansion from the house of industry into a house of mourning. After the back-to-back losses of his favorite son Frederick, his best friend, Frederick Pabst, William had reached a breaking point. He appeared to be going through his usual routine, though through those around him, they noted that he had been nervous and despondent for months. At approximately 10 a.m., he sat down in the family dining room for a light breakfast. After eating, he told his house staff that he was not feeling well and intended to go upstairs to his bedroom to lie down. This wasn't entirely unusual, as he had been suffering from chronic stomach issues for years, probably from all the angst, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_07 9:28

Probably like an ulcer.

Heirs Rivalries And A Golden Son

SPEAKER_05 9:29

Yeah. Yeah. And once inside his second floor bedroom, he did something out of character. He locked the door. And at roughly 10 15 a.m., a muffled bang echoed through the upper floor of the mansion. He had grabbed his 38 caliber Smith and Weston revolver, placed the barrel to his right temple, and fired a single shot. A young housemaid named Eva heard the noise and ran to the room. But she found the door bolted. His son Billy was not in the house at that exact moment, but then arrived shortly after. In a panic, Billy ran up the stairs and began kicking at the door to get to his father, and when they finally broke through, they found William dead on his bed in the second floor. This now left Billy to take over the brewing company, which was not something he was ready for. He didn't live a life to be proud of. He had been married to Lillian Handlin for five years at this point. She is and was nicknamed after nicknamed the Lavender Lady. She would only wear lavender color clothing, and even her carriage was painted lavender. They had a son, William III. But just four years later, in 1908, Lillian filed for divorce. It was the most scandalous trial that St. Louis had ever seen. Lillian didn't just want a divorce. She wanted the world to know exactly who Billy Lemp Jr. was behind closed doors. In 1908, you couldn't just go get a no-fault divorce. Lillian had to prove that Billy had made her life legally intolerable. Her testimony was a laundry list of Billy's personal failings. Lillian claimed Billy was a serial philanderer. Most famously, she accused him of hosting wild parties in the caves beneath the mansion, where he would bring other women while she was upstairs. He testified that, or she testified that Billy was a cruel and cold husband who would often go days without speaking to her only to explode in fits of rage. She even claimed he once pointed a revolver at her. She accused him of being a frequent drunkard who embarrassed her in front of St. Louis High Society, often disappearing for days on end to entertain his friends. Billy didn't take the accusations lying down. He hired a private investigator to tail Lillian, hoping to catch her in an affair to invalidate her claims. Now my thoughts are is that Billy was just a a kid who probably got whatever he wanted. He's probably super spoiled, had unlimited amount of money, and didn't want to work. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:15

Like that that style of person, that kind of person.

SPEAKER_03 12:19

Just sit there, party, have a good time, and not really have to do anything. And if his brother is doing all the work.

SPEAKER_05 12:26

Then why? Yeah, he can just go play.

SPEAKER_03 12:28

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 12:28

Yeah. So Billy's lawyers argued that Lillian was a materialistic socialite who was bankrupting him with her lavender obsession. He claimed that she spent thousands of dollars, which would be millions in today's money, on custom purple gowns, lavender-painted carriages, and even lavender-sented tack for her horses. She claimed he was the only one who she was the only one who emotionally distanced and used her extra extra I don't know how do you say this. Ecentricities. Ha! Figured it out. And made it impossible to have a normal German-American household. In a shocking turn in the early 1900s, especially when fighting a man with Billy's power, the judge ruled in Lillian's favor. She was awarded a massive cash settlement and sole custody of their son William Lemp III. The trial painted Billy as a degenerate playboy and Lillian as a victim of the Lemp curse. It effectively ended the Lemp status as the moral leaders of the St. Louis business community, which would be huge. Right.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:39

Huge.

SPEAKER_03 13:40

You gotta wonder though, too, like if he was found if the judge found him guilty, essentially. I would be willing to bet there was probably enough proof.

SPEAKER_05 13:54

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:55

To him to be found guilty.

SPEAKER_05 13:57

I bet they had a lot of witnesses come in and be like, oh yeah, we had tons of parties and we did X, Y, and Z, and it was like everybody was drunk all the time, and you know.

SPEAKER_03 14:05

We were tapping into the personal kegs down there. It was a great time.

SPEAKER_05 14:09

And he always had women, and you know, I'm sure there was tons of witnesses that they could find.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:16

So the brewery suffered in the early 1920s when the prohibition began, and it was shut down, and the brewery complex that covered 10 city blocks was sold at auction for$588,000, which would be worth now$10.5 million today. Jeez.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

That's still pretty low.

SPEAKER_05 14:36

But just a few years earlier in 1919, it was appraised for$7 million, which would equal to$113.5 million.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

That seems more what I would expect to see the number to be.

SPEAKER_05 14:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

Which means that thing tanked hard.

SPEAKER_05 14:54

Yes. So, and I I bet it wouldn't have tanked as hard if one of the other two had had it. It still. Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:04

But because it was now in Billy's hands, I think I guarantee you he didn't care. I would be shocked if he did. But Billy had been in a deep dark depression for months. He had recently finished overseeing the liquidation of the family assets, a process that essentially erased his father's and grandfather's life work. On December 29, 1922, Billy reportedly had a quiet morning. He was seen by his brothers Charles, who lived in the house, and the house staff appearing morose and agitated. Around mid-morning, he had entered his office and closed the door. This was the same office where he had once hosted a city's elite and managed a global fortune. Billy picked up his 45 caliber handgun and placed the barrel of the gun against his left chest, aiming directly for his heart. And at approximately 10 45 a.m. a single shot rang out from the first floor. His brother Charles and a servant rushed to the office. They found Billy slumped in his chair behind his massive desk. He was still alive but fading fast. His brother Charles leaned over him, and Billy reported reportedly managed to gasp out his final words. I'm tired of it all. And he was pronounced dead shortly after, and he was only 55 years old. So if the death of the Lemp men represented the collapse of the empire, the death of Elsa Lemp Wright represented the tragic loss of the family's heart. Elsa was the youngest daughter and widely considered the most beautiful and charming of the siblings, and a darling of St. Louis's High Society. Elsa was married to Thomas Wright, the president of a large metal company, and on the surface, they were a power couple, but behind the scenes the marriage was failing. They had separated and reconciled multiple times. At the time of her death, they had recently reunited, but friends noted Elsa seemed extremely nervous and unhappy. At the time of her death, Elsa was officially labeled by the press as the wealthiest woman in St. Louis. She had inherited a massive portion of the lamp fortune. On the morning of March 20th, 1920, Elsa was in her bedroom using a 25-caliber handgun similar to her father. She shot herself while in bed. Her husband Thomas was in the house at the time. He heard the shot and rushed to her room, finding her fatally wounded. But some suspect that her death was a murder masked as a suicide. And she was only 37 years old. Oh jeez. So I kind of read into this a little, and the more I read into it, the more it seems like it was a murder.

SPEAKER_07 18:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:03

It seemed like a jealous husband. And she was more than what he could handle. Like she's the one that had all the money. She like he obviously had money too. But from what it looked like, it looked it sounds like it was a murder, covered up as a suicide. And back then, I mean, how can you prove that? Well, yeah, back then they didn't have like forensics and stuff like what we do now. Well, and it's like, well, the rest of her family has been dying off by killing themselves with a gun.

SPEAKER_07 18:35

So this just falls in line with the colour. Why not her? Yeah.

William’s Grief Turns Fatal

SPEAKER_05 18:39

Of all the deaths in the Lemp family, Charles Lemp was the most chilling. While the others seemed to act out of sudden despair or business failure, Charles' death felt like a cold, methodical closing of the book. By 1949, he was the last Lemp leaving living in the 33-room mansion. He had become a total recluse, living in the house with only two servants and his beloved Doberman Pincher. By this time, on May 10th, 1949, the mansion was no longer a palace. It was a dark shell of his former glory. Charles had grown increasingly eccentric and paranoid, rarely leaving his room. He was in his room on the second floor sometime in the morning, and Charles took a 38-caliber revolver and shot his Doverman pincher. This detail is often one that disturbs people the most, most likely wanting his dog to be there when he took his own life. He then turned the gun on himself and fired a shot to his head. When the servants found him, he was lying on his bed and the dog was found nearby. He left a suicide note saying, In case I'm found dead, blame it on no one but me. Charles' final instructions were perhaps the biggest shock to the Lemp legacy. He explicitly requested that his body not be taken to a funeral home, that he not be buried in the mass in a massive opulent lemp mausoleum at Bellefontaine Cemetery with the rest of his cursed family. That he be cremated and his ashes be placed in a wicker box and buried on his farm. So very opposite of the rest of his family. Yeah. I wonder if there was like a falling apart or something with his family. Because I feel like that's like the one thing that everybody has is family. And you want to be with your family. He was like, heck no.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

But he was alone. I mean, you gotta wonder at that point in time, he's just despair takes over. It's like, look, you guys have all left me. It's not like it's not like they got, you know, scarlet fever or the Spanish flu or anything like that. They took their own lives. And so I imagine he felt a lot of maybe anger and despair associated to the loss of his family. And because I mean and then imagine living in one the very place that they killed themselves. And two, a 33-room mansion by yourself.

SPEAKER_06 21:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:16

I mean, that's a lot of empty.

SPEAKER_05 21:18

That is. Mm-hmm. Beyond lonely. There's only two workers there. So I'd be awfully quiet.

SPEAKER_03 21:24

And I think that was because, I mean, I don't know how much money they he had at that point in time.

SPEAKER_05 21:29

Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

You know, but like, so it's either a part of like we don't have a lot of money, and then and then also, like, sure, you could have a staff of 20 people, but why?

SPEAKER_05 21:39

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 21:40

It's just you.

SPEAKER_05 21:42

Well, back then it was like people like to host parties and like to entertain, and it sounded like he was not that kind of a person.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

I don't I I think after if my almost my entire family died of suicide in my in my own home.

SPEAKER_07 22:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

I don't think I could be looking at it as a place to have a party.

SPEAKER_07 22:04

Mm-mm. No.

SPEAKER_05 22:06

It'd be more like a prison at that point, I think. Oh yeah, for sure. So there's also one more person who may or may not be a part of this curse. There is a legend of a little boy named Zeke. There is no paper evidence of his existence. And legend says that he was an illegitimately born child to Billy Jr. with what could have been Down syndrome and physically having deformities with a housemaid. So to protect the reputation of the Lemp family and the prestige of the brewery, the child was never officially acknowledged. It is said that the boy was hidden away on the third floor attic for his entire life. He was reportedly given the nickname the Monkey Boy by cruel neighborhood children or disgruntled staff who caught glimpses of him through the small attic windows. The legend states that he lived into his 30s, eventually dying of natural causes within the house, never having experienced the world outside the mansion walls. The legend argues that a family as powerful as the LEMS could easily have bribed doctors and officials to keep a shameful child off the books. Wealthy families of that era often hit children with disabilities in sanitariums or backrooms to avoid the taint of bad genetics, which would have been seen as a threat to their business standing. I wonder if something like that really did happen. Because it would happen back in the day. But if you were that family and you had so much money, why not put put the child in a sanitarium? I don't know. Like why not?

SPEAKER_03 23:52

Because the attic works. You said back room. Well, attic's the back attic's the the most of the back room.

SPEAKER_07 24:00

But they didn't want it getting out at all, it sounds like. So why would you put them in a sanatorium? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:05

Because then it would get out.

SPEAKER_07 24:07

It would get out.

SPEAKER_03 24:08

Not that you couldn't keep things quiet, but eventually something like that will get out.

SPEAKER_07 24:12

Yep. Yeah, that's very true.

SPEAKER_03 24:13

So if you keep them in the attic.

SPEAKER_07 24:14

So if you hide them away within the walls, less likely.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

And let's face it, those types of things happened all the time.

Billy’s Scandal And The Lavender Lady

SPEAKER_05 24:25

Which was so sad. It's very sad. Because they are some of the happiest people. They are. Yeah. So whether Zeke existed in the flesh or not, something or someone certainly seems to occupy the third floor today. It is widely considered the heart of the mansion's hauntings. For decades, passers by have reported seeing a distorted or strange face peering down from the tiny windows of the attic. The figure is often described as having a distorted or unusually large head. When the witnesses blink or try to take a photo, the figure vanishes. This has happened even when the third floor was locked and unoccupied. Investigators often place marbles on the floor of the attic. Many have captured video of these marbles rolling across the floor toward a person, or stopped abruptly and then roll back. What makes this eerie is that the attic floors are notably uneven and slanted due to the building's age. The marbles often roll uphill, defying gravity. Which that would be freaking cool to see. Guests and staff leave toys, candies, and trinkets there. It is common for these items to move overnight, or for childlike giggles to be captured on recorders. One famous recording features a voice whispering into a microphone that sounds like it's saying, Play with me. Witnesses often describe a small figure that peeks around the corners in the attic, only to vanish when the light is shined in that direction. The spirit in the attic is often described as playful in ways that feels lonely or desperate for attention. Female guests with long hair or people wearing loose clothing report the sensation of a small hand tugging on their hair or the hem of their shirt. People standing in the main attic hallway report seeing a small dark shadow peek around a doorframe. When they turn and look directly at it, the shadow zips back behind the door. Which I've seen before. Like where you look, you see a shadow, and it just goes so fast. They are so fast. They're quick. Mm-hmm. Some visitors report a sudden overwhelming smell of burning wood or old dust, as if a fire had just been extinguished. But there's been no history of a fire in the attic. Huh. But it makes me wonder if Zeke was real, if he accidentally started a fire. Somehow. Yeah, we can't.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

Using like a like a magnifying glass effect. Right.

SPEAKER_05 27:19

I wonder if maybe that's a possibility. I don't know. Don't the glass back then have been like that wavy lead?

SPEAKER_03 27:25

It would have been lead glass, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:28

So now let's get to the more specific paranormal experiences. A professional paranormal photographer was hired to document the mansion's restoration in the 1990s. While setting up a tripod in the long narrow hallway of the attic, the photographer saw a small, dark figure ducked behind one of the door frames at the far end of the hall. He assumed a child had snuck into the tour group. He called out, Hey, you shouldn't be up here, and walked toward the room. As he got closer, he saw a small pale hand with unusually long fingers grip the edge of the door frame, then quickly pull back. When he reached the room and pushed the door open, the room was a dead end. It had no other exits, and no furniture big enough for a child to hide behind. The room was empty, but found a single modern-day marble sitting in the exact center of the floor perfectly still. In the early 2000s, a group of local teenagers decided to test the Monkey Boy legend by standing on the sidewalk outside and taking photos of the attic windows. Using an old school Polaroid camera, they snapped several photos of the arched windows at the top of the mansion. In the first two photos, the windows were dark and empty. In the third photo, as it developed, a face began to appear. It wasn't a standard ghostly blur. It was described as a wide, distorted face with large dark eyes pressed against the glass. The group was so terrified that they ran to the car, and when they showed the photo to the Lamp Mansion historian later, the historian pointed out that the third floor level of the attic where the picture was taken was about the floor was about 10 to 12 feet below that window. So for a human to have their face pressed against the glass, they would have had to been levitating or standing on a tall ladder.

SPEAKER_03 29:27

Crazy. Oh that's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_05 29:29

Yeah, it would be new, wouldn't it? Yeah, I looked at the area where it's at, and there it there's kind of like a loft. And so uh where the picture was taken, it's like way up high where the windows are from the floor. Like there is literally no way anyone could be up there. There's no way. That's wild. I guess was exploring the attic hallway when she heard a sound that she thought was a kitten trapped in the walls. It was a faint high-pitched whimpering, and she followed the sound to the door of the toy room, the room d dedicated to Zeke, and as she stood in the door, the whimpering turned into a distinct, gasping sob. She whispered, It's okay, and suddenly the sobbing stopped. A second later, a toy wooden block was thrown from inside the dark room, skidding across the floor and hitting her shoe. She didn't wait to see who threw it. She fled back down the stairs to the crowded dining room. On the second floor, it contains the bedrooms of where William Sr. and Charles took their lives. It is wildly considered the most oppressive area of the mansion. In William's room, the most common report is the sound of a man pacing back and forth across the floorboards. It is a rhythmic, heavy tread that sounds like somebody deep in thought or agitation. Guests have reported waking up to find the door to the suite locked from the inside, even if they specifically remember having left it unlocked. Some have even felt the door handle turn or rattle violently, as if someone's trying to get in. On the anniversary of his death, which was the 13th, multiple guests over the years have reported being jolted awake at 10 15 a.m. by a sound of a distinct firecracker or a muffled shot coming from within the walls. That would be wild.

SPEAKER_03 31:33

Well, if we can stay there, I guess we know where we're going in February.

SPEAKER_07 31:36

Right?

SPEAKER_05 31:37

No kidding, gotta be there February 13th. Heck yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:40

Celebrate my birthday.

SPEAKER_05 31:41

There you go. Woo! This story comes from a former housekeeper who worked at the mansion during its early years as a bed and breakfast. She was cleaning the William Leb suite, and she stepped out into the hallway to grab fresh linens, leaving the door propped open with a heavy brass doorstop. She heard a metallic slide and watched as the doorstop was kicked out of the way by an unseen force. The heavy door slammed shut, and when she tried the handle, the door was deadbolted from the inside. Since she was the only one on the floor and the room had no other entrance, there was no logical explanation. A manager had to be called with a master key, and when they opened the door, the room was empty, but the rocking chair by the window was rocking back and forth as if someone had just jumped out of it.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

Oh jeez.

SPEAKER_05 32:34

Which is interesting too because he locked his door when he killed himself with a deadbolt. So Charles was the most eccentric lamp. And his room is said to hold the judgment or angry energy. Several guests have reported the sensation of someone sitting down on the edge of the bed while they are in it. They feel the mattress dip and the covers pull tight, but when they turn on the lamp, the room is empty. People often report feeling watched from the corner of the room. One guest famously claimed to see a tall, gaunt man standing in the corner of the room, dressed in a dark suit, simply staring at them with the expression of pure annoyance. Guests often report a heavy breathing, sound coming from underneath the bed, or a feeling of large weight settling onto their feet, similar to a dog lying down at the foot of your bed.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

It'd be a little trippy though.

SPEAKER_07 33:44

It could be a little unnerving, but I mean if you understand the story behind it, yeah, and you recognize that maybe that's what's happening, I don't think it would be as scary.

SPEAKER_03 33:54

Well, probably not. I I think it would be interesting though, because if if we were staying in that room, I would think it was one of our cats.

SPEAKER_07 34:01

That's true.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

Laying down between our by our feet. And then you're like, oh, that's so sweet, and you reach down to pet it and you're like, wait, there's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_05 34:08

There's nothing there. Right. A paranormal investigator stayed there to conduct a solo overnight vigil. Around 2 30 AM, while lying in the dark with a digital recorder, he felt the atmosphere in the room change. It became thick and hard to breathe. He suddenly felt a massive weight settle onto his chest as if a grown man were pinning him to the mattress. He described it not as a ghostly touch, but as a physical struggle. At the same time he heard a low growl, guttural growl, right next to his ear. When he reviewed the audio later, he didn't capture the growl, but he did capture a clear whispered voice that said, Get out. He left the room and spent the rest of the night sitting in the brightly lit downstairs bar. Okay, that would be unnerving. Yeah, which it's interesting because we've talked about this before in other podcasts. But sometimes, and a lot of the times, when you audibly hear a voice or growl or whatever, you do not pick it up on your recorder. That's true.

SPEAKER_03 35:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:17

That's very true.

SPEAKER_03 35:18

Yeah, we had that happen um at Asylum 49 where um I was standing right next to her with my digital recorder running, and something talked right into her ear, and nothing.

SPEAKER_05 35:32

None of our equipment picked it up. Yeah. And it's so frustrating because I have heard some amazing audible voices. Very clear. Yeah. And I do not catch it on the recorder. And it is so frustrating because I can't prove it. Right. Right? It's just on your word, right? I know. I'm like, if this was an EVP, that would be a class A. Right.

Prohibition Collapses The Brewery

SPEAKER_03 35:55

Or you like we had at Waverly where we had two digital recorders on the complete opposite ends of the fourth floor. So 300 feet apart.

SPEAKER_05 36:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:09

Pick up the same EVP as if somebody was yelling out as an audible yell.

SPEAKER_07 36:17

Yeah. But we never heard it. We're on that floor, we heard nothing. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 36:23

Because if you if you would have been standing there hearing someone, a woman scream, help me. Help me.

SPEAKER_07 36:29

Oh yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:31

You would react.

SPEAKER_07 36:32

Oh, for sure. Yeah, we never heard nothing. But upon review, when we got back home, I was sitting there with the headphones on, I'm reviewing the audio, and I hear this. I mean, I'm almost falling asleep because nothing's happening, right? Right. And all of a sudden, I woke up real quick because coming across that audio was help me. A woman's frantic scream, help me.

SPEAKER_03 36:57

And then when I was reviewing our video footage that we had with us, the camera that we had on us, it picked it up on that one.

SPEAKER_07 37:06

Oh just fainter.

SPEAKER_03 37:08

It was just fainter, but it was still clear.

SPEAKER_07 37:10

Same woman. That is crazy.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:14

And we were on that fourth floor the whole time. So on both of the recorders, did it sound as equally loud?

SPEAKER_03 37:21

No. So it sounded so the one that was in the surgical room was like it was near that area. Like not in the room, but you know, in the hallway. The other one sounded faint and distant, but clear.

SPEAKER_05 37:39

Yeah. That's so cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:42

Yeah. God, that's stuff is makes no sense.

SPEAKER_05 37:48

No. No. And it's like, I wish I could freaking hear it so I could respond to it.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

Right.

SPEAKER_05 37:53

Like I want to have a conversation. So if I hear somebody that says, help me, what do you need? Yeah. I'm right here. What do you how can I help? Yeah. But you can't do any of that. No.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

No.

SPEAKER_05 38:04

And it's probably something that repeats itself. But in case it's not, you'd like to answer. You'd like to answer to it. Exactly. So although Elsa died at Hortense Place, she is frequently seen in the second floor hallway of her childhood home. A common sighting is a woman in a long white or light-colored Victorian gown standing in the hallway near the top of the stairs. She is often seen with her hands over her face, appearing to sob. Witnesses say that when they approach her to ask if she's okay, she doesn't walk away. She simply just fades into the woodwork or the wallpaper.

SPEAKER_07 38:48

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 38:50

That would be terrifying for somebody.

SPEAKER_07 38:52

That's so sad too, though.

SPEAKER_03 38:53

Oh, it's it's sad.

SPEAKER_07 38:54

I think for somebody that's not that doesn't do it like what we do and is just like visiting or whatever, right? And isn't exactly investigating or doesn't know the history behind it, if they were to experience something like that, oh yeah. Oh yeah, they'd be petrified.

SPEAKER_05 39:11

I know I would. Well, I think even for me, if I were to see something like that on my own, I think it would be scary at first. Yeah. You know, because it's it's not normal, especially if you're not expecting it no matter who you are. Yep. If they look solid enough.

SPEAKER_03 39:26

Yeah, if they look solid and you're like, oh, what's the matter? And then they just fade away. They just fade.

SPEAKER_05 39:32

I think your body would like go into shock.

SPEAKER_07 39:34

I think so. You would just sit there like, what the heck is just happening? Well, you know, and like you said, especially if you're by yourself. Yeah. It's one thing when you have somebody with you, right? You can still be on nerving. But if you're all alone, oh yeah. That's a whole different story. It totally is. I don't care how experienced you are.

SPEAKER_05 39:50

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 39:51

Especially when you think that you're not alone, right? Because you're like, oh, there's somebody here with me.

SPEAKER_05 39:56

And then they fade away. And I'm sure you go through like all the thought processes of like, did that just actually happen? No, I'm pretty sure that happened. Did I just witness somebody fading away?

SPEAKER_07 40:07

Yeah, I think I did. But was it real? Like, I'm sure you go through like all of it. And then you're like, well, you know, I did have that half a mug of beer at lunch.

SPEAKER_03 40:17

But it's two o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_07 40:19

Oh yeah, that's right. And then you're seeing there, is anybody gonna believe me? Is there a gas leak in here?

SPEAKER_05 40:27

A few years ago, a couple checked into the Elsa Lemp suite. In the middle of the night, the husband woke up to see a woman standing at the foot of the bed. She was dressed in an elaborate, high-collared white dress, not ghostly or transparent, but looking solid as a real person. Thinking a staff member or another guest had accidentally wandered into their room, he sat up and asked, Can I help you? The woman didn't speak. She slowly raised her hand, pointed toward the door, and then melted into the floorboards. The husband was so shaken that he refused to stay the rest of the night. When he checked out at 3 a.m., the night manager noted that the white lady is the most common apparition reported in that specific room.

SPEAKER_03 41:07

Wow. Okay, so we're each getting her own room.

SPEAKER_07 41:11

She melted I like how she melted into the floorboards.

SPEAKER_03 41:15

Yeah, does that mean she like elevator down or did she like you know, gelatiny?

SPEAKER_07 41:21

Well, it says melted, so I I assume just into a puddle through the floor. But I would be set in about the room.

SPEAKER_03 41:26

So Raiders of the Lost Ark.

SPEAKER_07 41:28

Right.

SPEAKER_06 41:29

We're like, I melt you know what a world.

Elsa And Charles End The Line

SPEAKER_05 41:35

While Lillian Lemp, uh Billy Jr.'s wife, didn't die here either. Her presence is felt most strongly in the suite that bears her name. Her presence is described as domineering and elegant. And I bet it seems like that's the type of personality that she had. The most famous experience is the sudden overwhelming scent of lavender perfume. It is described as old-fashioned and thick. It often appears in the hallway outside of her room and follows guests back into their own doors. A few guests have claimed that while brushing their teeth or looking in the vanity mirror, they see a woman in a purple tinted dress standing behind them. And when they turn around, no one is there. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 42:23

See, part of me has always wanted to see that.

SPEAKER_05 42:29

When you look in a mirror?

SPEAKER_03 42:30

Yes. And then the other 99% of me is terrified. It's terrified.

SPEAKER_05 42:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:37

Ever happening.

SPEAKER_05 42:39

Yep. That's why I've never understood when people um when they go ghost hunt and they'll stare into the mirror. No, that is. Yeah. That is like a no-go for me. I don't think that's good. I don't either.

SPEAKER_07 42:53

Neither like uh water scrying either. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:56

Yeah, scrying in general is usually Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:59

I won't I won't do that.

SPEAKER_03 43:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:01

But if you're like brushing your teeth or taking a shower or something and you see something in the mirror, that's a totally different experience. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 43:10

Still terrifying.

SPEAKER_05 43:11

Horribly terrifying. Especially if you're in the shower.

SPEAKER_07 43:13

Ugh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 43:14

That's a whole lot of nope. That's a whole lot of things.

SPEAKER_03 43:16

I don't care who you are.

SPEAKER_04 43:17

That's a whole lot of nope.

SPEAKER_03 43:20

Occupado.

SPEAKER_05 43:24

So this experience was reported by a traveler named Sarah who stayed at the mansion during a cross-country trip. She was a skeptic who chose the room specifically for its lavender aesthetic, not the ghost. Sarah reported that as soon as she had crossed the threshold into the room, she was hit by a scent so thick it was vicious. It wasn't just lavender. It was lavender mixed with the smell of old face powder and mothballs. Right? Ugh. Instant headache.

SPEAKER_03 43:57

Your mothballs are potent.

SPEAKER_05 44:00

Well, so can the lavender. Well, and so can the face powder. Yep. I mean, I would put on my grandma's old face powder. It was in this like pink marbly looking container. Mm-hmm. And it was like a thick top that you pulled off and then a big poof. Yeah, a big poof with a bowl full of powder. And it is so strong. So strong. So put all those three together. Nasty. Ugh. So gross. She checked the room for air fresheners or potpourri but found nothing. While Sarah was at the vanity getting ready for bed, she was looking into the large ornate Victorian mirror. In her peripheral vision, she saw movement behind her. She saw a woman sitting in the armchair in the corner of the room. The woman was wearing a high-collared, shimmering purple dress with a large hat with a veil. Sarah froze, looking into the mirror. The woman in the chair was looking down at a book or a piece of mail. When Sarah slowly turned her head to look at the chair directly, the chair was empty. When she looked back into the mirror, the woman was still there, but this time she had looked up. She was staring directly at Sarah through the reflection with a look of extreme irritation, as if Sarah were an intruder. Sarah eventually went to sleep, but she didn't stay asleep. At roughly 3 a.m., she felt a sharp physical shove on her shoulder that almost pushed her off the bed. She sh she sat up and shouted, thinking someone had broken in. The room was freezing, so cold she could see her breath. From the corner of the room, she heard a distinct feminine huff of annoyance that sounded like someone was that sounded like when someone makes when they are losing their patience. Sarah spent the rest of the night with every light in the suite on. I would too.

SPEAKER_07 45:59

I think at that point, yes, I would too.

SPEAKER_03 46:01

You know, but the funny thing is, is like we do this, right? Because it's like, oh, I'm safe. And in reality, it means nothing.

SPEAKER_04 46:10

Nope. Not a dang thing. It's like whether the lights are on or off.

SPEAKER_03 46:14

They're still there.

SPEAKER_04 46:15

They're still there.

SPEAKER_03 46:18

We just we just have that overarching fear of of things happening in the dark, so we feel way more vulnerable.

SPEAKER_07 46:27

Oh yeah, because you're less likely to see something coming at you.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 46:30

In the dark.

SPEAKER_03 46:32

Yeah, but if I mean imagine if like you turn the light on and then she's still there.

unknown 46:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:38

And then she charges you.

SPEAKER_07 46:40

Yeah, that would be just as bad, I think.

SPEAKER_03 46:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:45

Longtime employees at the Lamp Mansion have their own specific Lillian story that they often tell guests. They say, if you leave a mess in Lillian's suite, she'll let you know. Housekeepers have reported finishing her room, making the bed perfectly, and smoothing the sheets, only to walk back in five minutes to find a perfectly human indent indentation in the middle of the made bed, as if someone had just been sitting there. Staff have captured EVPs in this room where a woman's voice sharp and clear simply says, leave it, or mine. She's uh little possessive there. Yeah. Very strong personality. Very type A. No wonder she couldn't handle her husband.

SPEAKER_03 47:36

That or he couldn't handle her.

SPEAKER_07 47:40

Probably both. Yeah, I was gonna say, I think that goes both ways on that one.

SPEAKER_03 47:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:46

So these hauntings are on the first floor. So while the first floor was the public face of the Lamp family, home to the grand dining room, the parlor, and the main offices, it is far from peaceful. Because this was the site of Billy Lamp Jr.'s suicide, and where Williams Sr. spent his final agonizing hours before heading upstairs. The energy here is described as restless and busy. Billy Jr. shot himself in his first floor office, which is now part of the dining area. This is considered the most active spot on this level. Diners often report the feeling of a man standing directly behind them looking over their shoulder as if checking their work or their meal. Staff have noticed a specific corner where the temperature is constantly 10 to 15 degrees colder than the rest of the room. This is the exact spot where Billy's desk was located and where he pulled the trigger. People standing outside on the sidewalk have reported seeing a man in a dark suit standing at the office window, staring out toward the brewery. When they look back a second later, the room is empty. Now, why is this?

SPEAKER_07 49:05

Yeah. They know.

SPEAKER_05 49:08

It's like you see it in your peripheral vision, so when you look, it's it's gone. Or you see it leave really fast.

SPEAKER_07 49:15

Yep.

Zeke And The Attic Legend

SPEAKER_05 49:17

Like, why is that? Why don't they just stay and look at you? I mean, sometimes they do, but it's rare. And this is why I'll never catch anything on my peripheral vision.

SPEAKER_07 49:27

Because you don't have it. I don't have any. You only see it dead on. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 49:33

But I don't know. I mean, that's an interesting thing. Maybe they I wonder if if it's not actually our brains that don't handle it. Like they're still there.

SPEAKER_04 49:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:47

But we can't, like, our brains can't fathom what we're seeing and then just erases it.

SPEAKER_05 49:56

And I wonder if it's some type of rule, maybe, in the afterlife, where it's like don't be seen.

SPEAKER_07 50:11

Could be. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 50:14

Is it part of the book of the recently departed?

SPEAKER_05 50:17

The recently deceased.

SPEAKER_03 50:18

Yes, the recently deceased.

SPEAKER_05 50:19

I don't know. I'd have to sit down and actually read it. I don't know. I kind of wonder if there's like rules or like limitations or I'm sure there are some rules. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 50:32

Well, yeah, like you can't talk about it's like, you know, Fight Club, you can't talk about it.

SPEAKER_05 50:37

Yeah, well, and like like that's why I wonder if names are so hard to get. Could be. Like, it's literally not that we're trying to hide anything or like come up with a story because we can't get a name. It's like legit, the names are so hard to get. Right. And I've gotten EVPs where I've asked for their names and they tell me no. I've had multiple. Yeah, I've had multiple ones where I've asked.

SPEAKER_07 51:06

Can you tell me your name? No. See, I don't think I've I don't think we've ever gotten one where they tell us no. They either just don't say anything.

SPEAKER_03 51:14

Yeah, it's usually they don't say anything.

SPEAKER_07 51:16

Usually they don't say anything.

SPEAKER_05 51:17

I would say that's the same for me too, but I have gotten a few where they're like no. Where I will get no. Why?

SPEAKER_03 51:24

Yeah. The only time I ever got a no on something is when I would when I asked if they could move my flashlight, and they're like, no.

SPEAKER_07 51:32

I get a lot of no's. That's not the only time. We when we were at Waverly, the first time you had that little hot wheel car, we're up on five on the outside part, and you asked the little child spirit if he could move the car, and you hear a little kid say no.

SPEAKER_01 51:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:50

I think you guys would be surprised if you looked back at all of your EVPs how many no's you get. Yeah. I really do get a lot of no's. Yeah, I'm sure we've gotten quite a few. Oh, I'm sure we have. Over the years. And some were a little more aggressive than others. Right?

SPEAKER_03 52:04

And some are just plain weird.

SPEAKER_05 52:07

Yeah. So let's go to the dining room. The grand dining room is where many guests experience physical hauntings that feel less like spirits and more like energy glitches. Multiple servers have reported setting a table with silverware, turning their back to grab water, and returning to find that the forks and the spoons are flipped over or scattered across the floor. A famous account involves a group of diners who felt their heavy oak table begin to vibrate so intensely that their glasses were dancing. There was no construction or earthquake, and the vibration was localized to just their table. Weird. Yeah. Like I have been in a bed where the bed vibrates. Yeah. And we have talked about um other hauntings where beds vibrate or um pieces of furniture. Most of the time they're beds. But to have a table where all those people are eating and the glasses are shaking like that, that's surprising.

SPEAKER_03 53:15

Yeah, I don't think I've heard I don't think I've had any vibrations of just knocks on the bottom of a table.

SPEAKER_05 53:20

Well, there was one there was one with taps where I can't remember where they went. Was it um the Colorado Hotel? The Stanley? The Stanley Hotel. Yeah, I don't remember. I can't remember, but there was the table that they were at ended. Yeah. And it shook and then lifted.

SPEAKER_03 53:42

That was the Stanley, but it wasn't in the it wasn't in the building that we stayed in. It was the other one.

SPEAKER_05 53:50

With the auditorium?

SPEAKER_03 53:51

The one that was next to the auditorium.

SPEAKER_05 53:54

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 53:55

So it was like the new building?

SPEAKER_05 53:58

Right.

SPEAKER_03 53:59

That's yeah, that's that's where that happened.

SPEAKER_05 54:01

Hmm. But it's it's rare to have like a big table like that. That would take so much energy.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:10

And it makes you wonder if it's one or if it's like multiple spirits that are working together. They're all just all together, everyone!

SPEAKER_07 54:16

One, two, three, go!

SPEAKER_03 54:18

Left, right, left, right, left, right, left, right.

SPEAKER_07 54:20

Lift with your spectral legs, not your back.

SPEAKER_03 54:25

Oh my sciatica.

SPEAKER_05 54:28

You don't have a sciatica. Oh yeah. So here's the next one. It was after hours, and the bartender was wiping down the mahogany bar. He looked into the mirror behind the bottles and saw a man sitting on the far end of the bar. The man was dressed in a dark, heavy wool suit that looked not of this time. He was staring straight ahead and his hands were resting on the bar as if holding a glass. The bartender turned around to tell the man the bar was closed, but the stool was empty. He looked back into the mirror, but the man was still there in the reflection. Looking directly at the bartender with a look of profound hollow sadness, he then simply evaporated like mist. So I feel like there is a thing going on here where they look away, they see something in a mirror, look away, it's gone, look back, and now they're looking at them.

SPEAKER_03 55:28

Yeah, it seems to be a pattern.

SPEAKER_05 55:29

It's a little on there, it's like somehow a movie.

SPEAKER_07 55:31

Right?

SPEAKER_03 55:32

Right. It's like every time you look, they're closer.

SPEAKER_05 55:41

A diner named Robert was eating with his family in this section of the dining room that used to be Billy's office. With his back to the window, he felt a sudden violent shove against the back of his chair. It was so hard that his chest hit the edge of the table and his water glass tipped over. He spun around expecting to see a waiter who had had tripped or a child playing, but there was nobody behind him. The nearest person was over ten feet away. Other diners at the next table stared at him in shock. They told him that they didn't see anyone near him, but they saw his heavy oak chair jerk forward as if someone had kicked it with both feet. Robert left his meal unfinished and walked out. That would be so startling.

SPEAKER_00 56:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 56:28

Literally kick you into the table. I mean, like most people just feel like a touch or a little a little push, like pressure. But to have your entire chair do that, that's terrifying.

SPEAKER_03 56:43

Did he get his meal comped?

SPEAKER_05 56:46

I think at that point everyone's like, go, dude, go. During a quiet lunch service, a linen napkin was resting on an empty table in the center of the room. The napkin b napkin began to rise slowly into the air as if being lifted by the center. It hovered about six inches above the table for several seconds, swaying silently. Suddenly, the napkin was snatched sideways with incredible speed and thrown across the room, landing near the fireplace. There were no drafts, no open windows, no fans running. One of the servers who saw it claimed it felt like a temper tantrum from an invisible child or an invisible man.

SPEAKER_03 57:27

That'd be kind of cool to see though.

SPEAKER_05 57:28

I was saying, I want to see something like that. Like I have seen probably just a handful of things move. And a few of the times they're only just a little like it's just a little slight. Slight movement, like an inch.

SPEAKER_03 57:45

Yeah, that's enough to go, did it move? Yeah. I don't remember.

SPEAKER_05 57:48

And you always question yourself. But like I have seen a ball, the the little ping pong ball that like went in circles and went faster and faster and faster. Like I've seen that one time. And I feel like that will be the only thing that I ever see move like that. Yeah, but what a cool experience. So freaking cool. Once in a lifetime thing.

SPEAKER_03 58:08

I wish we would have we would have seen that ping pong ball move and thistle.

SPEAKER_07 58:12

Oh, I know. Yeah, after we left the house and we were out talking by the fire, you heard it. Yep, and I have it on my recorder.

SPEAKER_05 58:20

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 58:20

Well, because you hear it perfectly. Roll all the way across the floor.

SPEAKER_05 58:24

Down the stairs.

SPEAKER_03 58:25

Down a spiral staircase, and then switch directions back the direction that it rolled from and ended up basically right underneath where it started. But right in the center of a pentagram.

SPEAKER_05 58:40

Yeah, and we were outside at a fire. Yeah, we just heard it.

SPEAKER_03 58:43

Yeah.

Second Floor Locks Footsteps And Voices

SPEAKER_05 58:44

Yeah. It was so crazy. Nuts. Okay, let's go into the parlor. The Lemp family was known for hosting lavish parties, and the music from their nights seemed to have left a residual imprint. Guests in the bar area often hear a single clear note struck on the piano in the nearby parlor. When they go to investigate, the room is empty, and the fall board, which is the lid that goes over the keys, is closed. Late at night, when the mansion is nearly empty, staff have reported hearing a low hum of a cocktail party. The sound of many voices talking at once and clinking of glasses coming from the parlor. As soon as someone enters the room, the sound vanishes instantly. Now I've heard something like that, where it sounds like a low hum of voices, and then you walk into a room and just stops. But if it's residual, why does it stop? Great question.

SPEAKER_03 59:45

Yeah, good question. I've actually had this happen to me while talking to somebody and them standing, talking straight in my face, and I hear it. People talking, glasses clinking, silverware like a like a loaded dining room.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:00

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:01

And that guy did not miss a beat. So he did not hear it.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:06

Really?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:07

But I heard it.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:09

Weird.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:10

That's terrifying.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:12

A pianist hired for a holiday event arrived early to practice. The parlor was empty and the house was quiet. As he walked toward the room, he heard a complex classical melody being played. He stopped to listen, impressed by the skill. However, as he stepped into the doorway, the music stopped instantly. The piano's fallboard was closed and locked. When he sat down to play his own set later that night, he felt a static charge so strong on the keys that the hair on his arm stood up. Throughout his performance, he felt a cold hand rest firmly on his shoulder, as if someone were standing behind him, approving of the music. That's cool. I'm not sure I could have kept playing. Right? Well, it sounds like this person was like pretty open to that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:00

I mean You would have to be if you felt if you're sitting there playing.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:05

You have an icy hand on your shoulder. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:07

Like you're sitting there playing, all of a sudden, like this cold hand hits your shoulder and you don't miss a beat and you just go keep going.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:13

I mean, you must be used to it at that point because it would throw you a little bit, I would think.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:17

Well, and I wonder too, if you know, because I mean we've been around spirits that give you the ick vibe, and we've been around spirits that give you the comfort vibe. Yep. So I wonder if it felt like comfort. Yeah, possibly. More of that vibe than, you know. Or if it was like a a part of the piece of music where you could feel that kind of like some people, you know, feel empathy towards something or sadness or happy, or you know, they have those different feelings when you listen to music. And I wonder if that was a really powerful piece or part of the music that had given that. To be like, I really enjoy this. I'm gonna put my hand on your shoulder and let you know like how cool this is. The guest saw a woman sitting in one of the period accurate velvet armchairs in the corner of the parlor. The woman was wearing a black Victorian morning dress with a heavy veil over her face. Thinking it was an actress hired by the mansion to add ambiance. The guest walked up to her and said, Your costume is incredible. The woman didn't move or speak. She slowly raised her veiled head, and the guests realized that she could see the pattern of the wallpaper through her body. The woman then dissolved from the feet up, only leaving the scent of old roses in the air. Interesting.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:50

Oh, yeah, especially when you think you're talking to an actual person, then you realize you can see right through 'em.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:58

A group of four people were sitting in the parlor late one night, enjoying a quiet drink after the restaurant had closed. Suddenly the entire room filled with the sound of clinking glasses and a loud, boisterous cheers in a thick German accent. It wasn't just a faint sound. It was so loud that they all jumped and spilled their drinks. At the same moment, the heavy crystal chandelier above them began to sway in a perfect circle, despite there being no breeze and no one on the floor above. One member of the group claimed that for a split second the room flickered, just like a movie frame, and he saw the room filled with people in tuxedos and gowns before it snapped back to the dark empty parlor of the present day. That would be cool.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:44

That would be awesome, like a whole party going on. Yeah, you like you see the whole scene play out. That'd be so cool. That would be amazing. Step back in time, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:53

It would be trippy though, too, because you'd be like, What did I just see?

SPEAKER_07 1:03:58

Well, right, but I mean I think a after it would register for me, anyways, I would keep wanting to go back to see if it would happen again. Oh, sure. I'd want to see it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:08

You gotta wonder too, because like they were there kind of not necessarily at a party, right? But in a group of people that were just kind of relaxing at the relaxing, but drinking together.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:17

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:17

So in a similar fashion, they had a group of people there that were drinking together and they yelled, you know, they were all cheers or makes you wonder if it triggers it.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:26

Right. That's what I was thinking too. Wouldn't that be cool to all go in there and do that kind of as a experiment? Well, because we use trigger objects all the time. So why wouldn't something like that trigger an event?

SPEAKER_05 1:04:36

Right. It'd be worth a shot.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:38

A trigger event instead of a trigger object.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:40

Right. That's an interesting take. Yeah. It'd be fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:45

Would be.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:45

I'd do it.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:46

We should remember that for future investigations. Heck yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:49

Especially when we go here.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:51

Oh, now we're going we're adding this one to the list too, huh? Heck yes, we are. Sounds great.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:56

You know, depending on how you go to uh Kentucky, you go right through St. Louis. I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:03

That's very true, actually. I know. What's crazy is I've been to St. Louis multiple times and didn't even think about this place. Like, ah, missed opportunity. I know. I went and go sit at other places around there, though. Okay, so let's talk about the hiding child, which is aka Zeke. So though Zeke is usually associated with the attic, many believe he wandered the house when the family was asleep or away. Guests dining on the first floor have reported seeing a small hand grab their knee or tug on their shoelaces from under the table. When they look down thinking it's a dog or a child, there's nothing there. Housekeepers have reported hearing a child's giggle echoing through the main first floor hallway, often followed by the sound of small bare feet running on the hardwood. That would be wild. I think anytime. Hearing a child giggle gives you there's a little creep factor to that.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:03

Actually, I think there's a lot of creep factor. Thanks to like movies and things, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:09

Right?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:11

Like for me personally, I actually don't believe in child spirits. Yeah. I personally believe it would be residual. It would have to be if it's not demonic.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:22

But I mean, even that though, even picking up a residual giggle. You know, because you're like, well, there's no children here. Yeah. And it's like, what in the world was that?

SPEAKER_05 1:06:34

Well, and also sometimes like when you get EVPs and it it sounds like either a child or a woman. And sometimes it's really hard to distinguish between the two.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:45

That's true.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:49

And I mean, in that same vein, too, like some women were very short. And so if you caught the vision of a of a very short woman, you could mistake them for a child.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:03

I would say more of a teenager. Yeah, I think that would be less likely.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:07

But yeah. But I feel like the dress for them was different than the little child. So that's where it kind of changes for me, too. The Grand Foyer features a massive gold leaf mirror that the limps use to check their appearance before greeting guests. A host standing near the front door once reported seeing a reflection in the mirror of a small hunched figure darting across the hallway behind him. The figure was moving on all fours. But with a human-like gait. That's creepy as crud. How does that work?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:50

Right? How does a human-like gait on all fours?

SPEAKER_07 1:07:54

I don't know. Because when you think of gate, you think of their leg stride.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:58

Yeah, like that kind of reminds me of um Baloo and Oh, Mowgli. Mowgli. Like when Mowgli would walk on all fours. Like that's what I picture in my head with a human-like gate.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:13

I mean, I don't know. That's the best I can come up with. For reference, I think that's that's fitting.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:19

The host turned around instantly, expecting to see a dog that had slipped inside. But the hallway was a long, clear stretch of hardwood with nowhere to hide. When he looked back into the mirror, he saw a small, pale face with wide dark eyes peeking from behind the heavy velvet curtains of the parlor. When he walked over to the curtains, they were perfectly still, but the air around them was ice cold. That seems like a whole lot of ick, too. I mean, again, he looks in the mirror and it's there, looks away, it's gone, looks back, it's still there.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:58

Yeah. It seems like there's a lot of that that goes on at that location. With the mirrors and the icy cold spots.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:08

Yeah. But I mean the mirrors I find really kind of interesting because it's multiple reports.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:14

And yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:15

In all different places. Yep. Throughout that location.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:18

So But in the same token though, we talk about how mirrors can potentially absorb energy because of what we're doing with them.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:27

But they change.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:28

But but in this case, it's the same thing, right? Because like this mirror, like they sat and stared at this mirror all the time before they met anybody.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:36

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:37

So you gotta wonder how much energy just gets put into that that piece just for that alone.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:42

Yeah. But also it's like the people in the mirror change.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:48

They change from doing something on their own to doing s to acknowledging you. Yeah. All of them. So it's like intelligent. Right. Not residual. It's like when they're trying to get away with just being there. And the second time they're like, oh, you found me. Uh-oh, I've been seen.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:07

It's also still very creepy.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:09

Oh, totally. Once you make eye contact, man, that's a whole different ballgame. That changes everything. Everything. A line cook was closing up and had placed a small bowl of fruit on a prep table. He turned to the sink to wash his hands, and when he turned back, a single apple was rolling across the floor toward the basement door. As he went to pick up the apple, he heard a distinct snicker or giggle coming from the darkened hallway. The cook followed the sound and found a small pile of children's wooden blocks stacked in a neat tower right in the middle of the hallway. No one on the staff had brought toys to work, and the mansion was locked to the public at the time. Yeah, can you imagine staff bringing a stock or a thing of blocks? A box of blocks and setting them up in the hallway. I mean, I totally do that to freak people out. Oh, yeah, totally. I mean, we know I would, and so would Jamie.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:08

Well, you gotta get the blocks with the letters on them, and then you say, get out.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:13

Leave now. Come downstairs. Find me if you can. I see you. Wanna play?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:26

All things you don't want to see in your blocks. Especially when you don't own any.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:32

You know what would be interesting though? Is if we brought, you know, like the magnets, the letter magnets that you put on um fridges and stuff for little kids. That might be interesting if we leave like a bunch of them out, if any, and we leave them in a room. Oh yeah. To see if somebody would come up with a word, because that would be cool. We could totally do that. That would be easy too. That's a cheap, easy trigger object.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:00

The lightness makes them it makes it nice.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:03

Yeah. Easy to move.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:04

Yep.

Mirrors Moving Objects And Open Doors

SPEAKER_05 1:12:06

During a crowded weekend brunch, multiple guests reported seeing a small boy with strange features sitting on the bottom steps of the staircase, playing with a piece of string. One guest, thinking the child was lost, approached him and asked, Where's your mom, honey? The boy didn't look up, he simply faded into the stairs. While the guest was looking directly at him, the guest was so distressed she had to be seated in the bar to recover. She was probably like, Give me a drink. Take a couple shots.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:38

In the bar or at the bar.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:40

There's a difference. The front door gatekeeper. The massive front doors of the mansion are the source of a very specific repeated haunting. Guests have arrived at the front door to see it swing open wide before they even reach for the handle. As if a butler is welcoming them in. However, when they step inside, the foyer is completely empty. Wow. A couple arrived for a dinner reservation on a rainy evening, and as they reached the top of the stone steps before they could even extend a hand toward the heavy brass handle, the massive oak door swung inward with a smooth, deliberate motion as if as if a professional butler were standing on the other side. They stepped into the foyer and said thank you, expecting to see the host. But the foyer was completely empty. The nearest staff member was at the podium in the dining room nearly twenty feet away. When they asked the hostess who had opened the door, she replied calmly, Oh, that happens all the time. He likes to be hospitable when it rains. That would be so cool. That'd be awesome. A manager closing up the home physically turned the heavy dead bolt on the front door and checked it by pulling the handle. It was secure. Then he went toward the back of the house to turn off the kitchen lights. He heard a loud metallic cluck. The distinct sound of a heavy bolt being opened. He ran back to the foyer to find the front door standing wide open to the street. The dead bolt was still extended in the locked position, but the door was open. To close it, he had to retract the bolt, shut the door, and lock it again. He reported feeling a rushing wind pass him as he stood at the threshold, despite there being no breeze outside.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:36

So it's all the spirit saying, We're free! Running past us. Let's go out the door.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:45

I'm late.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:47

A guest left a heavy winter coat on the Victorian hall tree, which is the standing coat rack, near the front door. While standing just a few feet away talking to the host, she watched as her coat was yanked off the hook by an invisible force. The coat just didn't fall. It flew three feet across the floor as if someone had grabbed it and thrown it down in a fit. At the same moment, the guest and the host both heard a sharp, clear male voice whisper the word out right between them. The guest was so shaken she took her coat and left immediately, skipping her dinner entirely.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:27

That could be unnerving.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:30

Audibly hearing that and seeing your coat do that. Like it's it's almost like the the spirits there, they are very upset at everybody tromping through their home.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:43

I mean, I wonder if they just get aggravated because they just want some peace and quiet, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:49

Or maybe it's they don't like the people.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:52

The person that comes in, you mean? The specific person.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:55

Right. There's something about the specific person that's not going to be.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:57

Well, then they don't like a lot of them because I wonder how many people come in and out of there though.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:04

I think a lot. And I think what it I think it would for me what it would boil down to is I would get irritated with so many people coming and going all the time.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:12

Like it just this ne it would feel like this never-ending parade of just strangers in my space.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:18

And your move on the dead bowl would be to lock it and never allow it opened. It'd be like you're all out today.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:25

Yeah, I'd probably lock them all out. Be like as soon as they unlock it, I'd lock lock it right back. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:32

It's like, oh, yes, we don't want to be open today.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:36

Yep. So let's talk about the caves. Ooh, yeah. So the caves beneath the lamp mansion are literal and metaphorical foundation of the family's history. This is where the beer was stored, where the secret parties were held, and where the energy fills the most ancient. Unlike the upper floors, where the spirits have names and faces, the hauntings in the caves are often described as shadowy, primal, and physically aggressive. So that's a whole I think I mean that's a different vibe than upstairs. Yeah. I feel like the upstairs are just like more people? Come on. You know?

SPEAKER_07 1:17:18

This is getting old.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:21

The most common report from the caves is the sighting of a figure known as the Shadow Man. This entity is described as being blacker than the dark. Now we know what that's like. We know exactly what they mean. Yep. You think you're in pitch black? You're not. Standing over six feet tall and having a solid, human-like silhouette. A tour guide was leading a group through an arched limestone tunnel. Limestone, there you go. As they rounded a corner and the guide's flashlight hit a pillar. A tall dark figure was seen leaning against the pillar watching the group. When the guide called out, the figure didn't vanish. It stepped behind the pillar. The guide and several guests rushed to the other side of the pillar expecting to catch this trespasser. When there was no one for a person nowhere for a person to go, the tunnel was a straight shot with no exits, yet the figure was gone. The temperature in that spot was recorded at 38 degrees Fahrenheit, while the rest of the cave was a steady 55.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:27

Yeah, that's quite the difference.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:28

That is way cold. Yeah. I wonder in this area if it's not native. Because the in you know the tribes in the area would have used those caves for you know shelter and living and storage or religious purposes. Because it's it's by the the river.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:58

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:59

And so you gotta wonder if what's happening in there isn't something similar to that. It's more native, it's more part of the uh the actual indigenous people of the of that area.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:13

See, I actually had the same thought. I thought that very similarly. And the fact that there's limestone would make it like a giant battery. Yep. So Billy Lemp Jr. famously built a theater and a swimming pool in the caves. Are you kidding? No. How cool is that? And of course it would be Billy that did that. Today the pool is a concrete pit, and the energy there is notoriously heavy. A paranormal investigator was sitting on the edge of the empty pool in total darkness, conducting a solo EVP session. He felt a cold, wet sensation on his ankle. Thinking it was a drip from the ceiling, he reached down to wipe it away. His hand didn't hit his own leg. It hit a cold, clammy hand that was wrapped around his ankle. He felt a sharp tug toward the pool toward the pit of the pool, and he scrambled back, turned on his light, and saw a red hand-shaped welt on his skin that lasted for over an hour. Okay, that's frightening.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:20

Nope. Nope, nope.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:22

Freaking touching a cold clammy hand wrapped around your ankle? Ooh.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:26

Well, and then you have evidence at least for an hour. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:30

That all screams horror movie right there.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:32

Oh, absolutely. Totally. Long ago the caves housed a private bowling alley for the Lamp family and their elite guests. Though the wood and pins are long gone, the sound remains. A maintenance worker was alone in the basement fixing a pipe near the cave entrance. He heard the unmistakable heavy the d of a bowling ball rolling down the wooden lane. It was followed by the crashing sound of pins being scattered. The sound didn't come from upstairs, it came from the concrete floor right beneath his feet. He reported that the vibration was so strong that he could feel it in his boots. When he investigated the bowling area, he found the air smelt strongly of stale cigar smoke. But the room was empty and silent. It's the afterlife bowling league.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:28

Right. But see, that answers my question, though. The question I had in the beginning. Was there a way into the ton the caves from the from the house? And that answer is yes, because he was down in the basement near the entrance to the caves.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:40

Oh, yep. Yeah, I thought.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:43

And so there was a way down into the caves from there. Which would make sense why they then had a bowling alley and a theater. A theater.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:52

Because if you had to go all the way like across the street from the brewery and down some weird steps into the cave system that way and come back across, I mean people would still do it, but it wouldn't be as convenient as you know, you just going downstairs.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:09

Right. And I wonder if there was some sort of like elevator system when you're taking up a bunch of product, right? Or something. Because those barrels have got to be so heavy.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:21

Well, um, I I would imagine there would be into the brewery.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:24

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:25

So they had to have so all sorts of type of I bet there was all sorts of tunnels and entrances. Oh yeah. Well, yeah, because not only, you know, is that one brewery using it, but other breweries in the area are also using it.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:39

Well, they're not using that cave. They're other caves.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:42

Right, they're using the cave system. And so. I wonder if they're all connected. That'd be kind of neat. Like it's all sabotage. Like, you run through the caves a couple miles, you're like, ah. Take a knife, poke a hole in all the kegs.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:01

What I do find what's cool though, aside from the hauntings, is that those two could be best friends and have competing businesses. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:12

Yeah. You would think it'd be the other way around. Yeah. Like they couldn't be friends.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:17

But at least they weren't so full of themselves that they couldn't.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:19

Well true.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:20

And even, even um, one of Adam's sons actually worked for the competitor? For Pabst. Yeah. Yeah. Worked with Paps and his brewery. And then came back when he needed to take over. So I I don't know. I think that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:42

I think the interesting part about that is that Western beer is no longer and Pabst still exists.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:50

Which is interesting, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:53

That tells you a lot about also who took care of the beer and who was in charge of it during the prohibition.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:01

Yeah. That and like and then just the family making sure that the family actually like kept it going.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:07

That's what I'm saying. Yeah. For sure. A guest on a late night tour reported being separated from the group. She became disoriented in the dark tunnels near the old elevator shaft. Boom, elevator.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:23

But we are answering all sorts of questions that we have right now.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:28

She heard a rough, gravelly voice whispering directly into her ear. Watch your step, girl. She turned around, expecting the tour guide to see a tour guide, but she was completely alone in the tunnel. Seconds later, when her flashlight beam hit the floor, revealing that she was standing less than a foot away from an unmarked open drop-off into a lower drainage pit. She believes the spirit of an old brewery worker saved her from a serious fall.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:59

That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:00

That is so cool. Because that is like once you think about it, it's not malevolent.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:10

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:10

You know? Like it might be scary in the moment, like, what the heck was that? Turn on your flashlight. Right. But then once you process it, you're like, holy crap, that thing just saved my life.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:20

I almost just died.

The Caves And The Shadow Man

SPEAKER_05 1:25:21

Yeah. So in the end, the story of the Lemp family isn't just about beer or money or even the gunshots that echoed through those 33 rooms. It's a story about the weight of a name. Edwin, the last survivor of the Lemp children, lived into his 90s. And just before he died in 1970, he ordered his caretaker to build a massive bonfire on the estate grounds. For hours he fed the flames. He then burned every single Lemp family document, photograph, and business record he possessed. But Edwin forgot one thing. You can burn the paper, you can bury the bodies, but you can't always quiet the house. Today, if you walk past the Lemp mansion on a quiet St. Louis night, look up at the third floor window, you might see a distorted face looking back at you. A boy who was never written down in the records Edwin burned. Walk through the second floor hallway, and you might catch the scent of lavender or the sound of heavy, rhythmic pacing. Edwin Lemp tried to erase his family from history, but the spirits of the attic and the shadows of the caves suggest that the Lemps aren't ready to be forgotten. They are still there, trapped in the architecture of their own despair, waiting for someone to listen. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:48

Time to go on a road trip.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:50

We say this every time.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:03

Because normally it's like, so after all of this amazing history, what do we got? Well, we got some cold spots, some footsteps, some lady and whites.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:13

Yeah. There's always a lady and white. There's always.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:16

Okay. And what else we got? No, that's it. No first hand accounts, can't find any.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:23

That's very true. That does happen a lot.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:27

But not this one.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:28

Nope. This one is loaded.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:30

Loaded. And it also sounds like a bed and breakfast.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:34

It is.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:35

Or a hotel. So yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:38

Heck yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:40

It might be expensive, but that's alright. We'll get through four rooms.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:46

Four rooms? Yes. With three people. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:49

Four rooms, three people. So that what we have is we have one room that's the s that's the the the stale room that we just keep cameras on running.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:58

Just in case something happens in there. Uh huh.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:01

And then we can and then like we can switch rooms.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:05

Musical rooms. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:06

Four rooms, four nights. This cannot be very expensive, people. And then we each just sleep in a different room each night.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:13

No, this is what we do. We just rent out the whole place at this point. Right?

SPEAKER_03 1:28:17

But we can talk about the other rooms.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:20

Well, you don't care about the dining room or the parlor? I do.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:25

Dang it. Okay, so how much do you think it would cost to rent the mansion now?

SPEAKER_07 1:28:28

I mean the attic? Right? All of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:33

Yeah. I'd want I'd want to see the whole thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:37

It's places like this where I'm like, give me three days. Or three nights. I want to experience this place in it in its entirety, and I want to spend good quality time in every space. Right. I want to chase it. I want if it's going to be silent one night but good the next, I want to hit that next.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:58

You know? It's places like that where I'm like, okay, give me all the things. I want to experience the door opening when I come and um walk up to the house. Right. Like I want to experience everything. Something in the mirrors, something, you know.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:16

I want my coat to be thrown off the coat rack.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:19

Right. Well, they did this show, it was like 30 days. It was it was some I can't remember the name of the show, but they did 30 days in one location. 30 days, 30 nights.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:33

How cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:34

It'd be so awesome. Because then everything becomes normal. Like, this is what we do. We talk to the spirits, they know who we are, they've seen us around.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:46

Like there becomes familiarity. And that does help.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:50

It does. Surprisingly, it does. Yeah, it truly does. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:54

And so it'd be interesting to see, like, you know, if you could do 30 days, like how much you get day one versus day 30, and then does the temperament change over that time?

SPEAKER_05 1:30:10

I would say yes, because in places that we have investigated, I feel like the more times we investigate a place, the nicer it becomes.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:23

Not not for every piece of evidence. No. Because sometimes there is some ones that seem more upset than others, but for the most part in general, I would say it gets nicer. Like less irritated.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:38

Right. They're like, ah, these guys again.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:42

Yeah, we really wasn't like that.

unknown 1:30:44

No.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:44

The second time we got there, it got door.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:46

Well, that's the thing though, is you guys, it's not like you're going a few times a year.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:52

For them to like recognize you and to get familiar with you. If you're going once every how many years. Few years, yeah. Then I don't see how that would be really hard with as many people that go through Waverly or a place in general to be able to be familiar. But if you go like somewhere local, like Benson Grissmill. Yeah. We throw that out all the time because we've been there a bazillion times. And me ten times more than that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:19

And I feel like for me when I go, it's always like, oh, there she is. Do I rem do you remember me?

SPEAKER_03 1:31:26

Yes. I I mean, like, it is Do you want to go away now? Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:31

Very, very familiar. And I know when I go into certain places there that they will answer. And in other places, they will not. And they're still stubborn. Yeah. Stuck in their ways. Yep. Just like humans. Yeah. The living. That's why I wish, like, can I just live over, say, Ohio? Can I just live there for like six months and just investigate all the places if you die? There's a lot. There's so many out there.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:01

Well, there's a lot here, too. I think the issue we have here is accessibility.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:07

Right? There's not as many people who are willing to open up to investigations here.

Why The House Still Speaks

SPEAKER_03 1:32:12

They're not. And some of them, it's it's a case, I mean it's a it's a double-edged piece, right? Some people are just nope. We're not gonna talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:21

We're not discussing this with you. Um, and then the other side of it is we used to let people do this. Until. Until, and now nobody's allowed to do this.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:34

Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:35

Because people were being abusive and we're not putting up with it.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:38

That's right. And I don't blame them.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:40

No.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:41

I I hate the fact that you know one group can go in there and ruin it for everybody else, but I also don't blame the people for saying, okay, we're done. We're not we're not letting people in anymore.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:51

Yeah. So everybody, let us know. Would you go to Let Mansion? Would you stay there? Would you go investigate in the caves and maybe fake swim in the uh pool in the basement? Let us know. And as always, stay ghosting my feet.